Israel to "Liaise With Lebanese Officials" Over Building of Wall

AFP on Israel’s plan to build a wall alongside a part of the Lebanese border:

Any final decision on such a project would be coordinated with officials in Lebanon, the sources said, in a move which would hopefully prevent sniper attacks during the construction work. Although the two countries are technically in a state of war, Israeli and Lebanese military officials meet regularly in the company of the UN peacekeeping force UNIFIL to liaise on border issues.

Keep your eyes on this one. It’s promising to be a lot of fun. .

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  • Antidisestablishmentarianism

    I feel that Israel will end up being fenced from all sides… How is that different from the Warsaw ghetto? Is that better than peace with the Arabs? The Israelis are their own worst enemy…

    • Craig

      PS: How is that different from the Warsaw ghetto?

      The most obvious way it’s different is that they are capable of defending themselves from the people who seek to exterminate them now, but I admit that is a very apt analogy. Even if I’m not interpreting it as you intended.

    • Craig

      Antidisestablishmentarianism: The Israelis are their own worst enemy…

      Hamas begs to differ:

      For our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging and grave, so much so that it will need all the loyal efforts we can wield, to be followed by further steps and reinforced by successive battalions from the multifarious Arab and Islamic world, until the enemies are defeated and Allah’s victory prevails.

      Defeat the Jews.

      The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim).

      Kill the Jews. All of them.

      Antidisestablishmentarianism: Is that better than peace with the Arabs?

      Input on that from Hamas:

      Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the nonbelievers as arbitrators in the lands of Islam. Since when did the Unbelievers do justice to the Believers? “And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah [himself] is the Guidance. And if you should follow their desires after the knowledge which has come unto thee, then you would have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.” Sura 2 (the Cow), verse 120 There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad.

      Peace talks with the JEWS and CHRISTIANS are a waste of time. The solution according to Hamas is Jihad.

      When our enemies usurp some Islamic lands, Jihad becomes a duty binding on all Muslims. In order to face the usurpation of Palestine by the Jews, we have no escape from raising the banner of Jihad.

      Take back the land. All of it. From the JEWS. By force.

      These are the people you accuse the Israelis of being unwilling to make peace with.

      That charter is 5 pages long and it’s full of similar warmongering genocidal garbage. You’re about an audacious SOB to be claiming it’s the Israelis who are unwilling to make peace, or that they are their own worst enemies.

  • Craig

    It’s the Israelis who don’t want peace? lol

    The Israelis are their own worst enemy…

    I wonder what you’d say about Arabs then? Or do you somehow think Arabs are doing better than Israelis are?

    • general

      You can’t just steal someone’s land, kick them off of it with brutal deadly force and stuff them in ghettos, and then accuse them of not wanting to make peace.
      It’s the same as what the nazis did to the jews from 1933 till 1942(before they started killing them), would you have accused those jews of not wanting peace?

      • Solomon2

        The instance you cite applies to the Jews who were kicked out of the middle east in the 20th century. It does not apply to Arabs who fled Israel because they couldn’t abide living in a land where they could not abuse Jews at will.

      • general

        And amazingly, even when they’re the biggest oppressors and murderers on the planet, Jews themselves still believe this Hollywood myth that that everyone is out to get them, that they’re innocent and everybody wants to kill and abuse them.

      • Samer Nasser

        Whoa there, Solomon2! We all know you fancy yourself a bit of a professor on this blog, but rest assured that you’re wrong more often than you’re right, and you’ve NEVER been more FLAT-OUT WRONG than you were in arguing that the Arabs fled Israel in 1948 instead of being kicked out. This is a completely FALSE statement!

        The record is pretty clear that Israel was ethnically cleansed in 1948, whether you like it or not. I’m no scholar on the subject, because I’m actually not that interested in it, but I know that Israeli historians like Ilann Pappe, Meron Benvenisti and even Benny Morris admit that a deliberate policy of ethnic cleansing took place. Read about the Deir Yassin massacre, Plan Dalet, Den Gurion’s notorious contempt for all things native and Arab, the belligerent early-Israeli hard-line attitude of “ein brera”, or “no alternative” to doing the ugly things that needed to be done to establish a viable Jewish state in the Middle East. It’s a testament to how much was at stake at the time and continues to be at stake that contemporary Israelis and their apologists have such a hard time admitting this basic historical fact.

        AND EVEN if you want to argue that the confusion and fog of war in 1948 will forever render murky the debate of whether the Arabs voluntarily left or were forced out of 1948 Palestine, AND EVEN if you want to meet your antagonists half-way and argue that an expulsion was indeed planned but that Arab over-reaction rendered it more successful than even its planners had dreamed, YOU STILL have to contend with the more concrete reality of the AFTERMATH, when Arabs were deliberately prevented by Israel from returning to the properties they had previously inhabited.

        It’s a CONCRETE HISTORICAL FACT that since the end of hostilities in 1949, Israel moved to seize absentee Arab property, demolish traditional Arab villages and structures, and label anyone trying to “return” as an “infiltrator” who should be greeted with barrages of gunfire for his efforts. In fact, Israeli retaliation was not limited just to the infiltrators themselves, but at least in the case of Jordan, to Jordanian forces as well: a policy which successfully compelled the Jordanians to gradually prevent any Palestinians from trying to return to their properties in the lands which became Israel.

        And yes, in everyone’s mind except that of an Israeli, preventing someone from returning to his property is practically the same as kicking him out in the first place. There’s no nuance there whatsoever. Trying to introduce nuance is disingenuous and in completely bad-faith. You’re selling snake oil, and nobody’s buying it.

        This was all long before Gamal Abdul Nasser and the Six Day War. It was long before Assad and Arafat, Hezbollah and Hamas!

        So please, STOP STOP STOP prosecuting the rubbish Israeli canard narrative that the Arabs voluntarily fled Israel in 1948 instead of being kicked out. Nobody whose opinion matters really believes it anymore anyway.

      • Solomon2

        “I know that Israeli historians like Ilann Pappe, Meron Benvenisti and even Benny Morris admit that a deliberate policy of ethnic cleansing took place. ”

        Pappe’s accounts don’t stand up to scrutiny, you are misrepresenting Morris, and Ben Gurion certainly envisioned a Jewish State where the Arab population would remain, not flee.(Benvenisti I don’t know about.)

        In the end, after the War of Independence hostilities were over, Israel offered to let Arab refugees return to their land (or else return and receive compensation) in exchange for an oath of loyalty and a pledge of nonviolence. About 25% did so. The remainder chose to remain hostile and on the U.N. dole. Under the terms of the Mandate the Jews had no obligation to let a hostile populace devoted to its destruction return for as long as they didn’t accept Israel they were in rebellion and thus forfeited their civil and property rights.

        “Nobody whose opinion matters really believes it anymore anyway.”

        Maybe it’s time to remind them of the truth. Israel is doing just fine right now, but this sort of self-deception has resulted in madness and tyranny in the states surrounding it.

      • Samer Nasser

        Solomon2, I’m not surprised to read you double-down on your assertions, and complicate the plot further. Unfortunately, here’s where I’m going to blink and refrain from chasing you down the 1948 rabbit-hole. I honestly have better things to do, and can’t seriously claim to be an authoritative expert on the subject!

        But can you ? What are your credentials anyway ? :)

        Before I move on, I want to highlight your third paragraph, where you eloquently and clearly paint a grotesque picture of the duress and coercion that Arabs would have had to accept in order to THEORETICALLY be RETROACTIVELY allowed back to their homes in the aftermath of 1948!

        “Under the terms of the Mandate the Jews had no obligation to let a hostile populace devoted to its destruction return for as long as they didn’t accept Israel they were in rebellion and thus forfeited their civil and property rights.”

        At least now we all know what Israelis historically meant when they claimed of Palestinians that they “never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity”. Wow, this picture you paint above is quite the blueprint for bliss for Palestinian Arabs, isn’t it ?! What morons they were not to take up such a generous offer, if indeed they didn’t, if indeed it was ever seriously offered in the first place! (seeing as from my understanding, Israelis today are fully against the ‘Right of Return’ of Palestinian refugees under any and all circumstances, so a change of sentiment on the Israeli side must have occurred at some point between then and now) :)

        And finally, seeing as you brought up the subject of “self-deception”, I don’t think Israel is doing nearly as well as you claim (nor is the Arab World as “mad” or as “tyrannical”, despite its obvious issues).

        This year’s spectacle of hundreds of thousands of stoned Israeli youth protesting rising prices and declining prospects, when they’re not wasting the best years of their lives in active military duty, is not exactly the picture of happiness, is it ?

        Also, I would hesitate to contemptuously describe Palestinian refugees as being on “the UN dole”, when both Israel, and its deadbeat sugar-daddy the United States, both thrive on MASSIVE FINANCIAL HAND-OUTS from other nations: debts that they are unlikely ever to be able to repay!

        Say what you will about the Arabs, they are NOT deadbeats! In keeping with its status as a woefully underdeveloped region, the Arab World is a net FINANCIAL CREDITOR to the Rest of the World. The Gulf alone has hundreds of billions of dollars in increasingly worthless US Treasury bills. Can Israel boast similarly before it derides the Arabs as being the greedy or deadbeat party in the Middle East ? No!

        Having said all the above, I don’t want to come off as a person hostile to Israel, because I am NOT! I am a reluctant Zionist, in the sense that I fully agree that the Jews, given their sordid and painful history, deserve their own state and deserve to stand tall, sovereign, happy and proud in the community of nations!

        I am reconciled to the likely prospect of a “Greater Israel”, with a Jewish identity and Jewish demographic majority, encompassing the entire country from the Mediterranean Sea to the River Jordan, including the Golan Heights! (I just honestly don’t want to see it grow any larger than this!) :)

        I don’t want to see any more blood shed or happiness forsaken over the Arab-Israeli issue.

        I realize that the Arabs and the Israelis are doomed to spend the near future trying first not to hate each other, and then trying to actually like each other. (The rest of the world is under no such burden and will pass the Arabs and Israelis by if either party gets hung up on this process) :)

        I don’t want to “undo” 1948, and want to see all Palestinian refugees resettled in the Arab World.

        I reject as grotesque the notion that Palestinians are so native to Palestine or so foreign to the rest of the Arab World that their refugess can’t possibly be assimilated anywhere else.

        It hurts me to see Palestinians treated badly in the Arab World, as they were in the Gulf after 1990, and in Iraq as recently as the chaos of post-2003! (this does not preclude the fact that it hurts me to see ANYONE treated badly in the Arab World for any reason)

        I agree that Arabs have profound and hugely embarrassing issues that they need to sort out among themselves, and the sooner they endure the pain of whatever reform they’re capable of, the better off everybody would be! :)

        The name of the game in the Middle East from this point on is HUMAN DEVELOPMENT! Whatever accelerates it should be embraced. Whatever decelerates it should be rejected. Plain and simple! :)

        Having said all that, I’m out! :)

  • idit

    Is this wall being built on Lebanese land? if not, why do you care?.

  • CopyCat

    wow, one small comment brings on the paid agents of zionist hasbara to troll and obfuscate. hamas does not represent the palestinians, not even those in gaza. hamas has been recently talking about the possibility of turning to nonviolence and abandoning armed struggle. both parties can be blamed, israel and the palestinians, for the stalling peace process, but israel is not willing to compromise on any of the core issues – jerusalem, refugees, settlements in the west bank. everyone knows this, no point even debating it. the whole world knows that the israeli people have lurched to the far right and the ultraorthodox in betshemesh will soon rule all of israel, making salafi islamist kooks look liberal by comparison.

  • CopyCat

    and this is a guide to detecting Hasbara trolls:

    Funnily enough, Craig and Solomon and Idit fit the profile like the slipper fit Cinderella..

    • Fadi

      hahaha copycat the first video killed me, just so you know THE REALITY of who’s the ruling state of the world 😉

    • Fadi

      yeah dont worry the entire world knows the filthy israeli way of dealing with other people, this isn’t new to anyone

  • daverushmore

    @Copycat – you’ve just linked to Gilad Atzmon, who flirts with Holocaust denial, and belives the Czarist forgery Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is in fact accurate!

    Way to shoot yourself in the foot! #FAIL

    But what is most remarkable and disturbing about Atzmon’s piece is his commendation of overt Holocaust deniers. So far as I can work out from the article – and it is difficult to work out from the obscurity and preciousness of his prose – Atzmon declares himself uninterested in the facts of the Holocaust, and is agnostic on whether it even took place. He accepts that Auschwitz was “state terrorism”, but goes on to say:

    The question of whether there was a mass homicide with gas or ‘just’ a mass death toll due to total abuse in horrendous conditions is no doubt a crucial historical question. The fact that such a major historical chapter less than seven decades ago is scholarly [sic] inaccessible undermines the entire historical endeavour. If we cannot talk about our grandparents’ generation, how dare we ever say something about Napoleon or even the Romans? Personally speaking, I may admit that I am not that interested in the question above. I am not an historian, I am not qualified as one.

    Atzmon refers not to historically established facts of the gas chambers but to “the Holocaust belief system”. He declares that “unlike David Irving and his bitter academic opponent Richard J. Evans, I do not know what historical truth is”. (Evans was an expert witness for the defence in Irving’s libel suit against Deborah Lipstadt and Penguin Books in 2000. He demonstrated that Irving systematically distorted the historical evidence to deny the Holocaust.) Atzmon goes on (emphasis added):

    While left academics are mainly concerned with signalling out Holocaust deniers telling us what is right and who is wrong, it is the revisionists [i.e. Holocaust deniers] who engage themselves in detailed archive work as well as forensic scrutiny.