This is a lame post. To suggest that Israel is interested in a peaceful and stable Lebanon on its northern borders is a joke. Israel strives on conflict.

There are no Lebanese moderates. We saw that in the Kuntar kiss fest. The Lebanese want to have their cake and eat it too. You cannot ligitimize Hizballah actions against Israel and then say you really don’t support it. Either make clear to Hizballah that they are not allowed to attack Israel or accept the reponsibility for any attack.

What is the Lebanon Renaissance Foundation? I checked their website and there was nothing of interest or value. if it’s just someone’s pet project to build a name and reputation, it’s rather lame. hopefully it’s not just another CIA operated/Hariri funded front. either challenge hizballah directly or admit defeat and play the game.

Israel will not defeat Hezbollah by adopting failed strategies that force Lebanese society into embracing the militant group as its only viable means of defense

Lebanese have had - and missed - many opportunities to effectively challenge Hezbollah’s growing tyranny. The U.N. has been right there, willing to work with the LAF at de-fanging Hezb according to UNSC 1701 and 1559, for the past two years. Lebanese politicians have preferred to do little to risk their own skins The days of the Cedar Revolution vanished as Lebanese citizens have yielded the initiative to the current batch of leaders. Despite heavy support of Lebanon’s military by the U.S. and the increase in state authority that Israel won for Lebanon in 2006, the lack of effective political opposition has meant that Hezb now has its claws in Lebanon’s entire communications, transport, and military intelligence apparatus.

Evil succeeds when good men do nothing. The writer does not explain how once again showing mercy and sparing the rest of Lebanon will suffice to defend Israel. On the other hand, it is even more doubtful - as the writer explicitly assumes - that united Lebanese support of Hezbollah will defend the country, rather IMO it is more likely to destroy it.

It is a Lebanese dilemma, yes, but it is one Lebanon’s leaders asked for. “Let us find a Lebanese solution for Hezbollah”, Siniora said, begging for UNSC 1701 to be a Chapter 6 resolution (requiring host gov’t cooperation) rather than a Chapter 7 one (mandatory).

His wish was granted, and the country supported him. But even with the U.N. aggressively patrolling Southern Lebanon, the Lebanese government never cooperated with the U.N. and declared Hezb a militia to be disarmed under UNSC 1559. Now that Sleiman has said that Hezbollah is a “regional” problem hasn’t Lebanon gone back on its promise to address Israeli and Western security concerns? Lebanese have chosen to remain in the first circle of hell, and they will surely spiral in further, if things go on much further.

Why are you sitting back and doing nothing?

Well said Solomon deux. Can anyone still wonder why israel would want to mop the floor clean the next time around? As long as lebanese pols and people hold on to the arabist bullshit ideology we will continue to get hammered.

Solomon2, your quote:
“Despite heavy support of Lebanon’s military by the U.S. and the increase in state authority that Israel won for Lebanon in 2006…..”

Can you pls explain to me what “authority” did Israel win for Lebanon after that war? Israel worked full time to hit at infrastructure, power plants, bridges in areas far from the conflict,lebanese army barracks inflicting casualties for no reason, and then proceeded to bury the south with illegal ordnance that continue to this day to kill and maim civilians. How could the “honest” lebanese gain from this situation? Let’s face it, Israel’s undeclared and true “gain” is when Lebanon’s economy is in shambles. Hizbullah attacks may be a justifiable excuse to launch a limited operation, and shame on Lebanon to allow such an armada to continue its operations, but Israel is always itching to pull the trigger to wreck havoc and destroy Lebanon’s infrastructure and therefore its economy whenever it gets the chance and do so without pity. Give me a break with your “holier than thou” attitude. There is nothing new with this “declaration” of total war, Barak just made Israel’s true hidden intentions official this time around.

Can you pls explain to me what “authority” did Israel win for Lebanon after that war?

Sure. It was Israel’s incursion and bombs that wiped out Hezbollah’s bunkers, and UNSC 1701 compelled Hezb to withdraw from the border area and mandated that it be patrolled by Lebanese troops instead, and expanded UNIFIL to be a “multiplier” - a lever that could operate at the Lebanese government’s call to disarm Hezbollah with a small amount of LAF assistance.

Israel is always itching to pull the trigger to wreck havoc and destroy Lebanon’s infrastructure and therefore its economy whenever it gets the chance and do so without pity.

For a much better measure of “without pity” see Russia’s current activities in Georgia. Israel warned southern Lebanon residents to evacuate before its incursion, and afterward most people still had homes and property and crops to return to. Not the Georgians.

In short, Lebanese have not seen Israel wage “total war”. Not yet, anyway.

Israel’s undeclared and true “gain” is when Lebanon’s economy is in shambles.

From biblical times to the present, Jews have always had an interest in trade with Lebanon for mutual profit. No trade or no industry = no gain.

Give me a break with your “holier than thou” attitude.

On the contrary. As an American safely ensconced near Washington, D.C., I’ll never have the opportunity to stand tall against tyranny that Lebanese do today - yet fail to take advantage of.

That victory or defeat will be yours, not mine. Can’t you see how I envy you?

Olmert said a more comprehensive response to an attack would be used *if* Lebanon became a Hizbollah state. *IF*. So concentrate on not letting Lebanon become a Hizbollah state.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3584938,00.html

Not a great statement either way though. If Hizbollah thinks it can fuck over the rest of Lebanon just by attacking Israel, that might actually encourage it to do so… Because it is Hizbollah that thrives on war, maintaining disputes with Israel and their armed militia.

“Israel warned southern Lebanon residents to evacuate before its incursion, and afterward most people still had homes and property and crops to return to.”
I think you’re reaching here and I wouldn’t expect you to understand since you’re basking under the “washingtonian” sun. The majority of people under siege in the south lost their homes,their belongings, whole villages were mostly destroyed, esp. as you get closer to the border. How do you explain the bombing of bridges nowhere near hizb areas? How about the unwarranted bombing of LAF barracks? is it just a coincidence, or was it a premeditated attempt to collectively punish all lebanese?
As far as “winning authority”, let’s just say that Israel reluctantly decided to abide by this resolution after it was obvious that it had failed in dismantling Hizb, given the fact that missiles were still falling on Nahariya and inching dangerously closer to other cities deeper into israel!

I don’t know the specifics of bombing any LAF barracks. I did read on one Lebanese newspaper’s site that at one base the LAF commander served the Israelis tea. So it is clear that however the Israelis treated the LAF, they did so with discretion.

I do know that in wars bridges that are distant from the battlefield often get bombed, as it hinders the movement of personnel and supplies.

The majority of people under siege in the south lost their homes,their belongings, whole villages were mostly destroyed

I do doubt the first part of this statement. No one doubts that villages that were militarized were heavily damaged, nor that Hezbollah did little to rebuild them. If residents lost their belongings, it doesn’t seem to be from looting by Israeli soldiers.

was it a premeditated attempt to collectively punish all lebanese?

Ah! Now that would have been my favored policy, as it would make Lebanese less inclined to tolerate Hezbollah, just as the havoc of two world wars turned Germany off of conquest. The Israelis were too kind-hearted to do that. Maybe next time.

As far as “winning authority”, let’s just say that Israel reluctantly…given the fact that missiles were still falling on Nahariya -

Factually flawed. Hezb’s arsenal was just about gone, so the additional damage Hezb could have inflicted would have been puny.

See? Even though you think you don’t believe it, the continued pounding has pushed a lot of Hezbollah’s narrative into your brain.

In a very significant and potentially dangerous move, Israel’s security Cabinet recently decided to reverse its long-standing policy of distinguishing between Hezbollah and the democratically elected Lebanese government. Instead, Israel has threatened to respond to actions by the Syrian- and Iranian-backed Hezbollah by attacking Lebanese state institutions and the Lebanese national army - on which the United States and the international community have spent hundreds of millions of dollars to bolster as a counterweight to Hezbollah.

Are Lebanese really the only people who don’t understand yet who is running their country? The efforts to provide a “counter-weight” to HA have failed. The Israelis would be fools to differentiate between HA and Lebanon at this point in time. HA won. Now, Lebanese have to deal with the ramifications of that.

And I doubt Israel is the only country that will treat HA and the Lebanese government as being one-in-the-same, going forward.

Lewis,

If Hizbollah thinks it can fuck over the rest of Lebanon just by attacking Israel, that might actually encourage it to do so…

Hezbollah could fuck over the rest of Lebanon by attacking the US as well. And that’s been true since September 11th, 2001. All it would take is one HA terror attack within the US and Lebanon would be under US occupation in 2 days flat. Yet, HA hasn’t done that.

Because it is Hizbollah that thrives on war, maintaining disputes with Israel and their armed militia.

I don’t agree. Terrorist organizations thrive in failed states. Which Lebanon already is. A terrorist organization loses it’s clout internationally when it has to focus its attention towards an occupation force. They are forced into the role of “insurgent” at that point. It is never good to lose the initiative, and I’m sure Iran has no use for a Lebanon under foreign occupation… unless it is Syrian occupation. Iran needs HA in a position where it can act as a deterrent to Iran’s enemies. All out war in Lebanon will flush that capability down the toilet.

Solomon2
Among the Lebanese figureheads that I dislike the most, Nasrallah ranks pretty much way up there. Having said that, I couldn’t stop myself from laughing at the strange statement you made about Israel “wining” any authority for Lebanon. Rather than get into a back and forth futile argument with you about this, I will lay out a simple issue that will certainly win Lebanon real authority. Why is it that Israel is still in the Shebaa Farms? It’s Lebanese ownership might be disputed but what is NOT disputed is the fact that it is not Israeli territory. Barrack realized in 2000 that occupying Lebanese territory will not bring tranquility to Northern Israel and he withdrew. The 2006 war proved that this thesis was correct when Hezb was able to reach Israel with his missiles from deep within Lebanon. Short of an Israeli withdrawal through negotiations with the Lebanese government Israel is further proving to all Lebanese that no Lebanese territory can be reclaimed except for the Hezb’s catch-all “resistance”. If you want to see Hezb disarmed then withdrawing from Shebaa is the very first step.

Barrack realized in 2000 that occupying Lebanese territory will not bring tranquility to Northern Israel and he withdrew. The 2006 war proved that this thesis was correct when Hezb was able to reach Israel with his missiles from deep within Lebanon.

Hmmmm…. seems like I could make a pretty good argument that the 2006 war proved that the ONLY way to protect Northern Israel from Hezbollah is to occupy Lebanon. If the south isn’t enough, then the whole thing. What am I missing? How many times does Lebanon have to get invaded after launching missiles into Israel before Lebanese decide they don’t want to launch missiles into Israel? I’m sure we will find out that magic number sooner or later, because I doubt the Israelis will ever reconcile themselves to being subjected to missile attacks from within Lebanon…

Pretty sure that’s what this post was about too, right? The next time it happens Israel isn’t going to try to fight a limited engagement against HA? You seem to be saying that Israel needs to surrender more, instead. Fundamental failure to communicate…

By the way, MM… what do you think about telling the Russians they should just give those two pieces of Georgia that it is occupying back, if they really want peace? That’d be pretty absurd, wouldn’t it? How about if the Georgians promises to stop attacking Russia, if Russia will only give them back their sovereign territory? What’s that you say? The Georgians haven’t been attacking Russia? Well, maybe somebody should send them some Katyuhas so that they can win divine victories of their own? How do you think the kind and noble Russians would react to taking missile fire on Russian cities from inside Georgia?

Craig,
Hmmm. In theory you may be correct in that occupying Lebanon would drastically reduce or eliminate missiles from falling on Northern Israel but the better question to ask is, will this make Israel better off? We both know the answer to that without having to ask Barrack, I might add.
While the Israeli army “may” be able to invade Lebanon relatively easily, save for a bloodied nose, two black eyes, and a couple of lost limbs, it will however insure death by a thousand cuts of its army stationed there.
The steady stream of Israeli soldiers returning home in body bags will surely not make Israel better off.
As for the Georgia-Shebaa analogy, I am sorry to tell you that it is not applicable on so many levels but most importantly, Israel never claimed that Shebaa is Israeli territory and have always claimed that it is occupied Syrian land.
The only way for Israel to secure its northern borders is to do whatever it takes to disarm Hezbollah. Fortunately, the majority of Lebanese want Hezbollah disarmed as well. Withdrawing from Shebaa, before the Lebanese elections in 2009, will help those who want a peaceful Lebanon win parliamentary majority and will work on disarming Hezbollah internally. Otherwise, you will have a Hezbollah dominated parliament that will legislate eternal war with Israel into law.

The Lebanon we wanted on March 14 2005 was burried on March 14 2005 at 5PM by the same idiots that took control of the people’s revolution. At 5-6PM they were already on TV wanting to share the victory against Syria with the pro-Syrians, by stating they will keep defending the opposition, by preparing future electoral alliances with those who helped killing Hariri in their turf in Dahye. It is absurd to differentiate between hezbollah and the people surrounding hezbollah. Israel is right in kikin all lebanon’s ass next time, especially that Leb’s infrastructure was put under hezb’s control during the summer war. Damn, even LBC gave Manar brodcasting towers, so to hell with LBC and their antennas. The BS about bridges away from the conflict zone is just absurd. If you know anything about strategies, you wouldn’t have dumped 10,000 missiles on Israel randomly, when blowing a couple of Israeli bridges would have done much more damages. The stories about the poor innocents who lost their homes is not going to make me cry, nor make the world cry. When you have a katioucha under your kids bed, you are calling for destruction. Cut the schyzophrenic, double faced policy. If you are against Hezbollah, go on the streets and sit there until they disarm. If you stay home and bark about hezbollah but elect Aholes that won’t miss an opportunity to kiss the moukawama’s ass then F you people you sure deserve to be bombed from south to north, east to west.
On the other hand, Israelis from their part should stop the crap too!!! How about bombing Syria and/or Iran along with Lebanon next time huh??? Or you just know how to threaten the weakest? Stop the BS Israelis, you suck!!! Show your power by hitting Damascus maybe or some nuclear facilities where a bomb 1 million times stronger than a stupid katioucha is being produced and will most likely have as a target your dear capital. Effin wuss!!!

I am an Israeli. As far as I see VOR and MM represent Lebanon. It is not good for Israel or Lebanon.
1. All weapons used by Israel were legal. If not, some Israeli will be sitting in a cage in the Hage. The rest is propaganda.
2. The Border between two countries is marked by the two countries. Lebanon refused to mark the Israeli Lebanon border. The UN marked this border and Israel agreed and acted accordingly. Lebanon did not say a word. The Shaba border is unknown and was temporarily marked by the UN after the last Syria/Israel war. If and when, so said the UN AND ISRAEL, Lebanon and or Syria will produce a clear VALID map of the area arround Shaba Israel will act according to the UN wishes. The rest is propaganda, Lebanon never furnished such map.
3. All countries are responsible for people shooting from their land to other lands, this is what country and border are all about.
4. Either VOR or MM was proud, so it seems, that the people of Lebanon were shooting into Nahariya - Israel till the last moment. Well, Israel is a democracy, in a way, and the people count, at a certain point, as it look now, if it will take to turn all of Lebanon into a parking lot so that people from Lebanon will not shoot into Israel the people of Naharia and other Israelies will try the parking lot option, is there any other?. As an Israeli who will not vote this way I am saying that all these Million Lebanese who are against playing this game should give Israel an option other than the one presently given by their Government, by the way for most Israelies now Lebanon = Hizballa, because this is exactly what the Leb. government is saying.
5. As for body bags which either VOR or MM are for, well I think it is a very stupid saying, but why do they think that only one side will be using them in the near future I do not know.
6. More people in Lebanon should say, like the Egyptians and the Jordenians, that they hate Israel and wish it no good but if the Iranians want to fight israel they should do it should from any where but Lebanon.

Hazbani, You missed the whole point in my comments so I urge you to grab your mouse and scroll up a few paragraphs and read again.
I will distill my point to one sentence. If Israel wants to disarm Hezbollah (since Hezbollah without arms can not be a threat to Northern Israel)then a first step would be to withdraw from Shebaa diplomatically because this will offer the Lebanese an alternative to Hezbollah’s guise of “resistance”. This is not an exercise in international topography or property rights, it is a pure and simple and practical step, that will leave Israel BETTER off than the status quo. Hezbollah is looking at the next Lebanese elections as a consensus vote on its status. The Hezb gaining parliamentary majority should be Israel’s, and the international community’s worst nightmare. Wake up folks.

MM -

Actually, HiZballeh taking over Lebanon seems like an inevitability at the moment: Lebanon doesn’t have the political or social will to root the Revolutionary Guards out of Lebanon. Demographics and politics both show that Lebanon is doomed.

Olmert said that should Lebanon become a HiZballeh state and attack us, we’ll feel free to use whichever force necessary to attain our goals. Cheaper and more effective while also causing thousand times the damage and causing hundreds of times the casualties.

Which brings us the first point. Fighting a war against a military entrenched within (foreign, since Lebanon is not Iran) civilian population and using the said population as human shields is one thing. It’s difficult, it’s extremely expensive (do you have any idea how much these precision bombs and missiles cost?!) and it greatly endangers both your soldiers and your civilians.

Fighting against a state officially run by a genocidal organization that glorifies scum like Samir Kuntar… well, it’s a whole different thing. Did I mention it’s cheaper, simpler, causes less casualties to our side, etc?

So no. If HiZballeh is going to take over Lebanon, let them do so quickly and get this over with.

Giving away any territory won in a defensive war against a genocidal enemy encourages other genocidal enemies. When weighted against Lebanon’s inevitable fall, Israel’s sanest course of action is clear.

Israel sanest course of action is hiting Iran, wuss!!!

I guess according to Raccoon’s logic, having an Ahmadinajad style regime on Israel’s doorstep makes Israel better off. Go figure.

I will lay out a simple issue that will certainly win Lebanon real authority. Why is it that Israel is still in the Shebaa Farms? It’s Lebanese ownership might be disputed -

Since 2000, Israel has a letter from the U.N. confirming it has withdrawn completely from Lebanese territory. The only real dispute is about how much of the SF Israel has withdrawn from is Lebanese territory and how much is Syrian. Last month Lebanese troops moved into part of SF that Israel had withdrawn from eight years ago but is claimed by Syria.

Syria immediately responded by agreeing to formal diplomatic relations with Lebanon, after stalling for decades - and to delineate the Lebanese-Syrian border. So yes, the SF issue has won Lebanon real authority. At this stage, however, if Israel withdrew further from SF the territory would, by the U.N.’s reckoning, fall to the Syrians. That would be considered a Hezb victory, so the Lebanese government’s prestige would be considerably reduced.

Ralf -

Not yet. Any attack on Iran would have to annihilate most of Iran’s missile stockpiles, nuclear facilities and preferably its air bases - and do so quickly. It’s a costly and risky operation, best left as a last-resort option.

Simply waiting a bit longer should do the trick of neutralizing Iran. It could be the Azeri, Arab, Kurd or any other kind of separatists that’d do it in. It could be the rotting economy (24.2% inflation is just the tip of the iceberg), or the hordes of paupers (53% of population beneath subsistence poverty line) who have nothing to lose or hope for, the junkies (20% of Iranians are drug abusers, 2.5% are heroin junkies), the oppressed middle class, the unemployed (16%+, with some 25%+ among 15-25 y/o). Additionally, Iran is a state based almost solely on oil exports… and the world is moving on to renewable energy. Iran seems likely to collapse in the foreseeable future, despite its bluster and Photoshopped missile launches.

MM -

As I said, an open enemy is easier to fight.

[...] Firas Maksad reacts to the Israeli statement that includes all Lebanese citizens are now targets of war by arguing that not all Lebanese are pro-Hizbullah nor its policies. He predicts that such actions by Israel can only leave this segment of Lebanese with no other choice by to back up Hizbullah if such threat are to be implied: These are the more than 1 million Lebanese who in the 2005 Cedar Revolution peacefully took to the streets to directly challenge Hezbollah, Syria and Iran. They are the same people who supported the government earlier this year when it confronted Hezbollah by deciding to dismantle the organization’s countrywide communications infrastructure and remove the pro-Hezbollah security chief of Beirut’s airport… [...]

Israel is responsing to a lebanese government that openly embraces hezbo - so…by that - lebanon is responsible

MM, Vor - If you think we should give up Shebaa, may you please tell us who we should give it to?
We don’t want Lebanese territory. But withdrawing from there, with your government, even its allegedly anti-Syrian/HA parts, not uttering a word, is absurd. All it will do is have HA move into Shabaa and come up with the next excuse.
You say it’s hard to find an excuse? I say it’s easy. For example, they could attack the Israeli part of Ghajar, and then say Israelis started. Or they could kidnap some more Israeli soldiers in order to promote the solidarity with the Palestinian prisoners. Or if they really run out of excuses, some bearded fellow may declare Golan to be historically Lebanese. And besides, who said they need an excuse? Once they do something and Israel responds, they are fighting to defend Lebanon!
Let me rephrase this: no matter what peaceful gestures Israel does, as long as there is no will in Lebanon to stand up to HA, nothing will change.
Why not stand up to the bully or at the very least appeal to the international community? Ask officially for their help? Ask for a divorce from the South? Why the hell not, can you please explain that to me?

Guy, Raccon & Solomon, In case you were not aware, I will remind you that for the first time in Lebanon’s recent history you have an unprecedented (count them) 1) A majority in parliament, 2)a Prime minister, and 3)a majority in government who are advocating a diplomatic solution to the Shebaa farms versus the opposing camp lead by Nasrallah and his disciples (Michel Aoun et al)who are claiming (and have been proven right unfortunately) that you can only get back occupied Lebanese land by force from Israel. Negotiations with the current ruling coalition through the UN will prove that the March 14 alternative is the one to go by and not the eternal war option advocated by HA. A negotiated UN arrangement similar to UNSCR 1701 is possible where it would prevent HA from being in the Shebaa area. Guy, as for the ruling March 14 coalition not standing up or “uttering a word”, you seem to have forgotten their standing up to HA last May.
Again, do not underestimate the importance of the Lebanese parliamentary elections of ‘09. There is a lot at stake for everybody.

Just out of curiosity. How much does Israel owe to Lebanon? No, really.
Hezbollah despite its big talk does not bother Israelis anymore. And if they will HA will get what is coming to them. And if rest of Lebanese afraid of the process they better start pulling their weight.

“Hit Iran, hit this, hit that, …”. Do not freeload.

“Hezbollah despite its big talk does not bother Israelis anymore”
Really leo? Looks like both Olmert and Barak were bothered enough to issue threats against everything and everyone in Lebanon!

MM, I don’t share your optimistic appraisal of the situation.

“Looks like both Olmert and Barak were bothered enough to issue threats against everything and everyone in Lebanon!”

Consider it a wake up call and primarily for HA. And I have no doubt both of them are serious.

What is interesting to me is the fact that you still avoiding dealing with reality. Still trying to hide behind words of Olmert and Barak and whoever else as long as you like what you hear.
HA is your baby and whether you like it or not you will have to deal with it sooner or later.
So, as far as you should be concerned you either do it yourself or hope for Nasrallah make his move against Israelis rather than against you. Are you betting man?

“So, as far as you should be concerned you either do it yourself or hope for Nasrallah make his move against Israelis rather than against you.”
I wish Lebanon’s army could stand up and break Hizbo to smithereens but it isn’t a realistic scenario, if Israel couldn’t do it, I am almost positive no one else can unless the whole country is destroyed…we’re stuck with them as much as you are, except that you couldn’t care less about collateral damage, we do.

“if Israel couldn’t do it,
…
except that you couldn’t care less about collateral damage, we do”

Israel could not do it precisely because of its concern for collateral damage. So, for you to say it really makes me wonder whether you are not familiar with reality or are trying to pull my leg (mildly put). Which is it?

“I am almost positive no one else can unless the whole country is destroyed…”

Based on what you said so far you pretty much believe HA will take over the country and will destroy it anyway. That is if nothing is done about it. Am I correct?

“we’re stuck with them as much as you are,”

Not really. HA is not part of Israel and whether they will dare to attack Israel again remains to be seen. I could not care less how much they huff and puff as long as they stay on their side of the border and do not do anything stupid.

“realistic scenario,” …

… would be for Lebanese and Israeli governments to work together and not just wait for manna to fall from haven and hope to get by in the mean time.

PS. To avoid future confusion, I am not Israeli.

“would be for Lebanese and Israeli governments to work together..”
Shows me how realistic YOU are leo, and I really don’t care if you’re israeli or not….but you are taking their point of view..aren’t you?

“Shows me how realistic YOU are leo”

I suspected you will have problem with that. Well, until you will realize this is the only way I do not expect drastic change in the situation.

“I really don’t care if you’re israeli or not”

I know you do not but I also noticed you made an assumption in this regard so I decided to correct it. I do not want you to get confused however insignificant confusion might be.

“but you are taking their point of view”

It happens to be rational one. What do you object to exactly?

leo…let’s put this one to bed. You have your “rational” opinion and I have mine. In the end, Israel will do what it wants regrdless of consequences to Lebanon and unfortunately the same can be said of HA. We’re a country stuck between a rock and a hard place and yes, sad to say, by our own design…I am not in denial, but no one is above reproach either. I am done with this subject…nice debating with you and the others.

Out of fear of becoming annoying I concur.

I am not in denial, but no one is above reproach either.

Yes, you are in denial - you won’t use your brain to consider that you could be doing something drastically different. And yes of course, some people are above reproach, the only question being one of degree.

“would be for Lebanese and Israeli governments to work together..”

Shows me how realistic YOU are leo, and I really don’t care if you’re israeli or not….but you are taking their point of view..aren’t you?

VOR, I’m not sure I understand. You do talk to HA, although they are not your friends. Why would talking to Israel be “taking their point of view”? What is it that HA has in your eyes that Israelis don’t? That they are Muslims? I don’t see any other difference - neither HA nor Israel have your interests at heart. Or do you buy the HA line that they are defending YOUR interests in fighting Israel? If so, why should Israel not regard you as part and parcel of the problem that HA represents for us?

Mustapha you low life, you are actually posting this article by this Firas Maksad who apoligetically advises the apartheid zionist sluts on the best course of action to take to defeat the resistance? you’re such a sell-out you sucker of american cock. how does bush-dick taste, you weasel? in any case, it doesnt really matter since america will sell you out at the drop of a hat, as it has sold out its allies, er rather, its tools, in lebanon every time it was no longer feasible for it to spend any more money on them. you have been defeated in lebanon over and over and you will continue to be. your agenda in lebanon, tied at the toe to the agendas of america and israhell, has been dealt a decisive blow and will continue to be contained it the shoebox where it belongs, until israhell is no more.

As I said I am Israeli.
1. This is a sad exchange.
2. It is a real situation I have been in war (several times)and war is hell, nothing new about that.
3.So spare me this “collateral damage” thing. Talk about dead people and burning cities.
4. F…, Ulmert, F… Barak spare me this ME “me bravest ape” bravado. I am bothered and I am scared. So are many Israelies. And some body in Lebanon, including the leaders of all the fine peace loving million Lebanese, is doing his best to bother me and scare me, and as is well known scared bothered people are becoming nasty, very nasty.
5. After all this Lebanese-Israeli talk one rocket into an Israeli Village 5 people killed, including children and all hell will break loose.
6. The rocket? pay a UN Italian or Indonesian or a Palestinian or who knows who, in Lebanon now? no problem. So any body who live in Israel or Lebanon should think about this one single missile before bombing Iran or the moon or the fifth star on the left in the milky way.
7. It will not be this depicable, sterile, politically correct, stupidity “collateral Damage”. It will be hell. Go read Henry the 4th response to the ruller of France.
8. If any sane person in Lebanon is reading this please tell this to others, yes tell them Israelies are getting bothered and scared and this is a good reason for sane Lebanese to get scared too.

Just read IMMAK. As I said sad. But it seems IMMAK and his like, who are bad mouthing the USA, are looking forward to die for Iran. OK, but what about other Lebanese who want to live for their families and their dear one? and could not care one bit about Israel one way or the other,will he take them with him? will they join him with great joy?

The article, the letters - everything winds up with Hezbullah as the key element. Are they really? Let’s slip Syria into the picture. If Israel tells Syria to keep their vicious pet (Hezbullah) in a cage the focal point shifts. Suppose Israel also tells Syria that they will pay a price the next time around. Things like rocket storage and factories, troop barracks, etc.; maybe their whole Air Force (again). No civilian targets. Where would Hez be without Syria? Essentially up shit horse creek without a paddle. So Iran gets upset. The U.S., at least, could exact a large price from Iran for getting aggresively involved. There are a lot of countries in the area that might make a public noise, but they would privately be pretty happy. Hez needs to keep its image (self created) up but probably would fold if Iran and Syria find it in their own best interests not to cross the line.

[...] - bookmarked by 6 members originally found by deniskrizanovic on 2008-11-23 All Of Lebanon Is Not Hezbollah, By Firas Maksad http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/22/all-of-lebanon-is-not-hezbollah-by-firas-maksad/ - [...]