Comments on: Catch 22 On The Shebaa Farms http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/ Blogging Lebanon since 2005 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 16:47:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: B http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/comment-page-1/#comment-102761 B Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:53:46 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/#comment-102761 Sorry guys but the whole thing is a stupid argument. Regardless of whether Chebaa farms are Lebanese or Syrian, one thing they are NOT is Israeli!!! so Israel should just get the F out of there PERIOD. and this whole border drawing bull argument need not exist and anyone indulging in it has too much time on their hands! Sorry guys but the whole thing is a stupid argument. Regardless of whether Chebaa farms are Lebanese or Syrian, one thing they are NOT is Israeli!!! so Israel should just get the F out of there PERIOD. and this whole border drawing bull argument need not exist and anyone indulging in it has too much time on their hands!

]]> By: Hazbani http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/comment-page-1/#comment-101981 Hazbani Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:15:15 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/#comment-101981 So sily. Listen to Chaaddam. Shabba is one of the the most desolated unfertile pieces of land in Lebanon-Israel-Syria. There is no water there and no real soil. it is cold and dry and the grazing is very poor. So it is not the question of property or real estate. It will take about 15 minutes to mark this border on a Google earth map. It will than take about a week on mark it on the ground. Few scores of Lebanese/Syrian who use this area for any reasons can get the proper papers that will let them use land on both side of the line. It is very common arrangement in central Europe. Israel has nothing to do with this, no body should care what Israel say or does not say about a border between two Arab countries. The question is: do these people want normal relations between Syria/Lebanon or an excuse/reason for permanent war with Israel. So sily. Listen to Chaaddam. Shabba is one of the the most desolated unfertile pieces of land in Lebanon-Israel-Syria. There is no water there and no real soil. it is cold and dry and the grazing is very poor. So it is not the question of property or real estate. It will take about 15 minutes to mark this border on a Google earth map. It will than take about a week on mark it on the ground. Few scores of Lebanese/Syrian who use this area for any reasons can get the proper papers that will let them use land on both side of the line. It is very common arrangement in central Europe. Israel has nothing to do with this, no body should care what Israel say or does not say about a border between two Arab countries. The question is: do these people want normal relations between Syria/Lebanon or an excuse/reason for permanent war with Israel.

]]> By: Guy http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/comment-page-1/#comment-101974 Guy Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:11:56 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/#comment-101974 So Mustapha, why do you think there's no political will for even something like this from the M14 people? Can't they issue a declaration that they consider Shebaa Syrian - or Lebanese - and ask the UN - and Israel - to recognize it as such? What would Hez do if tomorrow M14 leaders were to declare this, request UN and Israeli recognition for the fact, and pending Israeli acceptance, declare willingness to sign a peace treaty with Israel? What arguments would Hezb have to stop it? So Mustapha, why do you think there’s no political will for even something like this from the M14 people? Can’t they issue a declaration that they consider Shebaa Syrian – or Lebanese – and ask the UN – and Israel – to recognize it as such? What would Hez do if tomorrow M14 leaders were to declare this, request UN and Israeli recognition for the fact, and pending Israeli acceptance, declare willingness to sign a peace treaty with Israel?
What arguments would Hezb have to stop it?

]]> By: Solomon2 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/comment-page-1/#comment-101967 Solomon2 Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:16:59 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/#comment-101967 Andrew does have a point. One never hears Arabs discuss or acknowledge what the "right size" should be for Israel, as in should it be bigger or smaller. The implication is that Arabs currently do not want Israel around at all and will keep trying to hack at it like diners cutting into salami. Andrew does have a point. One never hears Arabs discuss or acknowledge what the “right size” should be for Israel, as in should it be bigger or smaller. The implication is that Arabs currently do not want Israel around at all and will keep trying to hack at it like diners cutting into salami.

]]> By: Andrew the American http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/comment-page-1/#comment-101955 Andrew the American Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:23:36 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/#comment-101955 Israel wont withdraw anywhere - no reason Why ? Because Israel knows that after shabaa - the arabs will want more -all the way to Tel Aviv. Watch for a total change in the Israeli mentality that will say...expantion is the only way to Survive...and Thrive and sadly...it is I really wish the arabs would welcome israel home as the family she really is...would change everthing Israel wont withdraw anywhere – no reason

Why ?

Because Israel knows that after shabaa – the arabs will want more -all the way to Tel Aviv.

Watch for a total change in the Israeli mentality that will say…expantion is the only way to Survive…and Thrive

and sadly…it is

I really wish the arabs would welcome israel home as the family she really is…would change everthing

]]> By: Moe http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/comment-page-1/#comment-101938 Moe Fri, 15 Aug 2008 09:13:48 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/#comment-101938 I was wondering, can't anyone prove whether Chebaa is lebanese or not using GIS systems, as we all (most of us) know the surface of lebanon to be 10452 km2? i even think google maps can help in doing this. I was wondering, can’t anyone prove whether Chebaa is lebanese or not using GIS systems, as we all (most of us) know the surface of lebanon to be 10452 km2? i even think google maps can help in doing this.

]]> By: the real L. http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/comment-page-1/#comment-101905 the real L. Fri, 15 Aug 2008 06:27:34 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/#comment-101905 Well Duuh Moustapha !! was that news to u !!!! Well Duuh Moustapha !! was that news to u !!!!

]]> By: leo http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/comment-page-1/#comment-101860 leo Fri, 15 Aug 2008 01:59:12 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/#comment-101860 <i>"The Syrians won’t demarcate the Shebaa Farms"</i> Mustapha, you should've stopped right there. There is no catch-22. “The Syrians won’t demarcate the Shebaa Farms”

Mustapha, you should’ve stopped right there. There is no catch-22.

]]> By: L http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/comment-page-1/#comment-101833 L Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:15:32 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/#comment-101833 Well, Israle <i>can't</i> leave until this is sorted out. We have withdrawn to what most people (and the UN) agree is the international border, the location of which is generally not in contention. On the other hand, our (inevitable) withdrawal from occupied Syrian land must wait for a peace deal with Syria, since we need to sort out our border dispute with them. In short, Syria wants the 1949 "armistice line"; we want the 1923 "international border" line. The main differences are their access to the Sea of Galilee and the area around Al-Hama. Once Syria and Lebanon decide where their common border is, Israel could in principle withdraw from the Lebanese part of the Golan Heights. Sadly, I doublt this will happen: I don't think any Israeli leader will have the political capital to withdraw from annexed land without a getting a peace deal in return. Realistically, Israel won't withdraw from any part of the annexed Golan Heights until we sign a peace deal with Syria. Well, Israle can’t leave until this is sorted out. We have withdrawn to what most people (and the UN) agree is the international border, the location of which is generally not in contention. On the other hand, our (inevitable) withdrawal from occupied Syrian land must wait for a peace deal with Syria, since we need to sort out our border dispute with them. In short, Syria wants the 1949 “armistice line”; we want the 1923 “international border” line. The main differences are their access to the Sea of Galilee and the area around Al-Hama.

Once Syria and Lebanon decide where their common border is, Israel could in principle withdraw from the Lebanese part of the Golan Heights. Sadly, I doublt this will happen: I don’t think any Israeli leader will have the political capital to withdraw from annexed land without a getting a peace deal in return. Realistically, Israel won’t withdraw from any part of the annexed Golan Heights until we sign a peace deal with Syria.

]]> By: burger http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/comment-page-1/#comment-101830 burger Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:57:22 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/#comment-101830 Somehow I had a feeling Syria don't really want this whole diplomatic relations thing with Lebanon... Can't the Lebanese government unilaterally demarcate it's own border and declare the farms Syrian? Somehow I had a feeling Syria don’t really want this whole diplomatic relations thing with Lebanon… Can’t the Lebanese government unilaterally demarcate it’s own border and declare the farms Syrian?

]]> By: Bronx-man http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/comment-page-1/#comment-101823 Bronx-man Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:53:19 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/#comment-101823 Former Vice President of Syria Abdel-Halim Khaddam, in an interview with the Lebanese Future Television on August 27, 2006, speaking of Syria's most recent comments regarding Shebaa Farms, said: "Saying that the farms are occupied, and hence cannot be demarcated, is nothing but a pretext. The demarcation would not take more than an hour if there was a political will." Former Vice President of Syria Abdel-Halim Khaddam, in an interview with the Lebanese Future Television on August 27, 2006, speaking of Syria’s most recent comments regarding Shebaa Farms, said: “Saying that the farms are occupied, and hence cannot be demarcated, is nothing but a pretext. The demarcation would not take more than an hour if there was a political will.”

]]> By: frenchy http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/comment-page-1/#comment-101817 frenchy Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:40:54 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/14/catch-22-on-the-shebaa-farms/#comment-101817 there is another problem dude, the border with Israël, therefore with Syria in that part depends not on the blue line but on the Newcomb something treaty signed btw france and UK in 1923. It means as well to have recognized borders, lebanon needs to ask for the cooperation of france and Uk (which is not constituting a problem) to handle maps and they did it but as well with Israël to recognise these lines, as it needs an international agreement and therefore a negociation with israel... hard to get these preconditions especially today. there is another problem dude, the border with Israël, therefore with Syria in that part depends not on the blue line but on the Newcomb something treaty signed btw france and UK in 1923.
It means as well to have recognized borders, lebanon needs to ask for the cooperation of france and Uk (which is not constituting a problem) to handle maps and they did it but as well with Israël to recognise these lines, as it needs an international agreement and therefore a negociation with israel…
hard to get these preconditions especially today.

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