Comments on: Israel Might Do Something…Anything http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/ Blogging Lebanon since 2005 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 07:42:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Guy http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/#comment-12513 Guy Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:19:21 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/#comment-12513 Subar Dude, You say that many Lebanese have no notion of a civic society and therefore, as much as they may hate (Abd/Nasr/Hizb)allah and Co, they will not stand up to them. If this is the case, then why is having a unified state is of any importance? Why not just demand a divorce? Hizballah controls the South - let them have it? In other words, why are there not more people in Lebanon demanding separation from the South? Please realize - what Abdallah says is what Israeli public feels - that every overture for peace was met with more violence. Bringing PLO to the West Bank and Gaza ended up badly. Giving them guns, even worse. Withdrawing from South Lebanon, disastrous. Exchanging a well-fed murderer for dead soldiers, humiliating. The result is that if Hizballah ups the ante yet another time, the pressure to "finally show them" will be immense. It's not about the civic society for the Sunni, Christian, and non-Hizballah Shia; it's about insulating yourself from destruction that will be the result of Hizballah using you as the shield. Subar Dude,
You say that many Lebanese have no notion of a civic society and therefore, as much as they may hate (Abd/Nasr/Hizb)allah and Co, they will not stand up to them.
If this is the case, then why is having a unified state is of any importance? Why not just demand a divorce? Hizballah controls the South – let them have it?
In other words, why are there not more people in Lebanon demanding separation from the South?
Please realize – what Abdallah says is what Israeli public feels – that every overture for peace was met with more violence. Bringing PLO to the West Bank and Gaza ended up badly. Giving them guns, even worse. Withdrawing from South Lebanon, disastrous. Exchanging a well-fed murderer for dead soldiers, humiliating.
The result is that if Hizballah ups the ante yet another time, the pressure to “finally show them” will be immense. It’s not about the civic society for the Sunni, Christian, and non-Hizballah Shia; it’s about insulating yourself from destruction that will be the result of Hizballah using you as the shield.

]]> By: abdallah http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/#comment-12512 abdallah Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:43:39 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/#comment-12512 shalom to all the coomenting schmucks from the race of those who break covenants and nevr keep them... you all rabble and emanate an egocentricism now shattered at the feet of those who threaten your illigitmate existence as usurpers. Zionism invaded lebanon in 1982 to oust the PLO. By now, the PLO is in West Bank and Gaza (with Hamas & Jihad). In 2000 you are forced to pull out from majority of sth Lebanon; in 2006 defeated; and in 2008 humiliated! Hear ye O Israel, the Lord Allah is now on the side of Hizb Allah and we will defeat you Insha' Allah! shalom to all the coomenting schmucks from the race of those who break covenants and nevr keep them…
you all rabble and emanate an egocentricism now shattered at the feet of those who threaten your illigitmate existence as usurpers.
Zionism invaded lebanon in 1982 to oust the PLO. By now, the PLO is in West Bank and Gaza (with Hamas & Jihad). In 2000 you are forced to pull out from majority of sth Lebanon; in 2006 defeated; and in 2008 humiliated!
Hear ye O Israel, the Lord Allah is now on the side of Hizb Allah and we will defeat you Insha’ Allah!

]]> By: itiail http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/#comment-12511 itiail Sat, 09 Aug 2008 15:14:23 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/#comment-12511 Mustapha, Hi, I only agree with you some of the time on Israel-Arab issues, but I salute you for being, with patriotism for Lebanon, fair handed. More than once I've seen Lebanese try to demonstrate the evil of Israel by using quotes that David Ben Gurion wrote in his diary in 1948, in the middle of a war. Using quotes from a war that happened sixty years ago has always seemed wacky to me. Peace (one day), Mustapha,

Hi, I only agree with you some of the time on Israel-Arab issues, but I salute you for being, with patriotism for Lebanon, fair handed.

More than once I’ve seen Lebanese try to demonstrate the evil of Israel by using quotes that David Ben Gurion wrote in his diary in 1948, in the middle of a war. Using quotes from a war that happened sixty years ago has always seemed wacky to me.

Peace (one day),

]]> By: The Raccoon http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/#comment-12510 The Raccoon Sat, 09 Aug 2008 14:16:18 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/#comment-12510 SD - opinions are more than fascinating. Opinions shape the world. And the opinion of the Israeli public about Lebanon fell well below neutral level. The opinions of the Israeli public command a very powerful economy and the best military in the Missile East. SD – opinions are more than fascinating. Opinions shape the world. And the opinion of the Israeli public about Lebanon fell well below neutral level.

The opinions of the Israeli public command a very powerful economy and the best military in the Missile East.

]]> By: Bronx-man http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/#comment-12509 Bronx-man Sat, 09 Aug 2008 11:59:06 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/#comment-12509 Strategy is based, not on what the opponent’s intentions are, but what his capabilities are. In this situation, Hezbullah is the one with the intentions, Israel the capabilities. I doubt if Israel sees this as motivation, “……to make an irrational and dangerous move”. Nasrallah’s personality gives an onlooker the impression of an irrational being – but this is kept in check by Iran (where the irrational mixes with the rational). Israel, on the other hand, gave a strong impression of incompetence in matters military back in 2006 (a trait Ohmert shares with Bush). Iran finds Hezbullah useful as a distraction in case the U.S. attacks their nuclear facilities. They don’t want to risk this. Israel, for their part, will only react to Lebanon if Hezbullah truly establishes a mortal threat. This is not to say that everything is under control. The area has potential and the shit could hit the fan unintentionally. When you live in an earthquake zone you are reasonable to expect earthquakes. I think, though, that Mus’s expectations and descriptions are a bit out of the park. Strategy is based, not on what the opponent’s intentions are, but what his capabilities are.
In this situation, Hezbullah is the one with the intentions, Israel the capabilities. I doubt if Israel sees this as motivation, “……to make an irrational and dangerous move”. Nasrallah’s personality gives an onlooker the impression of an irrational being – but this is kept in check by Iran (where the irrational mixes with the rational). Israel, on the other hand, gave a strong impression of incompetence in matters military back in 2006 (a trait Ohmert shares with Bush). Iran finds Hezbullah useful as a distraction in case the U.S. attacks their nuclear facilities. They
don’t want to risk this. Israel, for their part, will only react to Lebanon if Hezbullah truly establishes a mortal threat. This is not to say that everything is under control. The area has potential and the shit could hit the fan unintentionally. When you live in an earthquake zone you are reasonable to expect earthquakes. I think, though, that Mus’s expectations and descriptions are a bit out of the park.

]]> By: Abu Borat http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/#comment-12508 Abu Borat Sat, 09 Aug 2008 08:21:18 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/#comment-12508 The Yahud go to war for "honor". They also kill for "honor", even family members. The Yahud are polygamists, the more wives, the more "honor" for the man. In Israel mustaches and beards are a sign of manhood. The more facial hair you have the more "honor" you get. Really! "it will be foolish and irrational" - not for the "honor-crazed" Jews with "wounded pride". The Yahud go to war for “honor”. They also kill for “honor”, even family members. The Yahud are polygamists, the more wives, the more “honor” for the man. In Israel mustaches and beards are a sign of manhood. The more facial hair you have the more “honor” you get.
Really!

“it will be foolish and irrational” – not for the “honor-crazed” Jews with “wounded pride”.

]]> By: Subar Dude http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/#comment-12507 Subar Dude Sat, 09 Aug 2008 03:19:02 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/#comment-12507 Solomon2 you said: "Nazi Germany was razed to the ground. It was neither a foolish nor an irrational act." Not sure what this statement has to do with the civic/political cowardice you mentioned. Taken by itself, you are comparing Lebanon to Nazi Germany and Israel to a group of nations (the whole world or if thats too much, the 'big' nations of the time) that took it upon themselves to raze Nazi Germany to the ground. Saying that mass murder and destruction is neither foolish nor irrational is, well I don't know. Maybe I'm too civic for that. For some reason you got stuck on "the few million Israelis are the whole world". I was trying to point out that population wise, there is no big difference, but somehow one group can claim that they are justified in destroying something, including civilians, then say it is a rational thing to do. HA claims the same thing, and they are neither. Now if you want to defend yourself, then have a ball. The other point people fail to see is that a large number of Lebanese have no concept of civic society so don't expect much in terms of resistance toward HA or any other similar group working to undermine the state, whether they want to raze Israel off the map, or just their neighbour's backyard. Blaming the Lebanese politicians (ref. shunkleash) is another joke, since, like you said, they represent the people. So yes, Lebanon can be razed to the ground, but it won't be because of a carefully thought out, rational, epiphany by the State of Israel. Murder and mayhem never are. The most impressive bit about this discussion, is that almost none here from Lebanon or Israel has been 'behind enemy lines' lately. Mus. most likely formed his opinion by reading the Israeli press, as much the Israeli commentators by hearing the news coming out of Lebanon. I just saw The Raccoon's post, and thought of something. There has been enough noise during the formation of this new government about a national defence strategy that includes HA, that casual observers are already predicting the wrath of Israel on the whole of Lebanon and it's state. Because politicians made so much noise about this, that even if it is not official (not in the ministerial statement) the link has been established. Opinions are fascinating. Solomon2 you said:

“Nazi Germany was razed to the ground. It was neither a foolish nor an irrational act.”

Not sure what this statement has to do with the civic/political cowardice you mentioned. Taken by itself, you are comparing Lebanon to Nazi Germany and Israel to a group of nations (the whole world or if thats too much, the ‘big’ nations of the time) that took it upon themselves to raze Nazi Germany to the ground. Saying that mass murder and destruction is neither foolish nor irrational is, well I don’t know. Maybe I’m too civic for that.
For some reason you got stuck on “the few million Israelis are the whole world”. I was trying to point out that population wise, there is no big difference, but somehow one group can claim that they are justified in destroying something, including civilians, then say it is a rational thing to do.
HA claims the same thing, and they are neither.
Now if you want to defend yourself, then have a ball.

The other point people fail to see is that a large number of Lebanese have no concept of civic society so don’t expect much in terms of resistance toward HA or any other similar group working to undermine the state, whether they want to raze Israel off the map, or just their neighbour’s backyard. Blaming the Lebanese politicians (ref. shunkleash) is another joke, since, like you said, they represent the people.

So yes, Lebanon can be razed to the ground, but it won’t be because of a carefully thought out, rational, epiphany by the State of Israel.

Murder and mayhem never are.

The most impressive bit about this discussion, is that almost none here from Lebanon or Israel has been ‘behind enemy lines’ lately. Mus. most likely formed his opinion by reading the Israeli press, as much the Israeli commentators by hearing the news coming out of Lebanon.

I just saw The Raccoon’s post, and thought of something. There has been enough noise during the formation of this new government about a national defence strategy that includes HA, that casual observers are already predicting the wrath of Israel on the whole of Lebanon and it’s state. Because politicians made so much noise about this, that even if it is not official (not in the ministerial statement) the link has been established.

Opinions are fascinating.

]]> By: The Raccoon http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/#comment-12506 The Raccoon Sat, 09 Aug 2008 02:25:44 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/#comment-12506 Currently, Israelis are spoiling for leaders with spinal cords, an acceptable education system and for the government to finish building the godsdamned desalination plants. Also, remember that Israeli politicians are both (somewhat) accountable and niggardly. If they can score points for cheap(like, say, by talking tough and investing in some spin) they are not going to take the risk of having to pay up for an action. And Israelis really don't like wars. Having an actual war is bad for business. People get killed, and it's a big deal over here. Especially when the people in question are Israelis. So Israel is not going to start a war. But you're absolutely right - if the Party of God's Imbeciles will start another war, it'll be Lebanon starting another war. And this time, Israel will show very little restraint. S2 - normally bringing Nazi Germany into an unrelated discussion is a sign that the thread is going straight down. SD - the bigger the target is, the easier it is to hit. Destroying an Israeli plane will be the last mistake Lebanon does. Should this happen, there will be huge demonstrations in Tel Aviv demanding Lebanon be neutralized with extreme prejudice. Iranian rockets fired by Hizballah were crude things, causing mostly a lot of fear and noise. Should Lebanon prove itself to be actually effective in killing Jews... it'll be the last mistake Lebanon makes. Currently, Israelis are spoiling for leaders with spinal cords, an acceptable education system and for the government to finish building the godsdamned desalination plants.

Also, remember that Israeli politicians are both (somewhat) accountable and niggardly. If they can score points for cheap(like, say, by talking tough and investing in some spin) they are not going to take the risk of having to pay up for an action.

And Israelis really don’t like wars. Having an actual war is bad for business. People get killed, and it’s a big deal over here. Especially when the people in question are Israelis.

So Israel is not going to start a war. But you’re absolutely right – if the Party of God’s Imbeciles will start another war, it’ll be Lebanon starting another war. And this time, Israel will show very little restraint.

S2 – normally bringing Nazi Germany into an unrelated discussion is a sign that the thread is going straight down.

SD – the bigger the target is, the easier it is to hit. Destroying an Israeli plane will be the last mistake Lebanon does. Should this happen, there will be huge demonstrations in Tel Aviv demanding Lebanon be neutralized with extreme prejudice.

Iranian rockets fired by Hizballah were crude things, causing mostly a lot of fear and noise. Should Lebanon prove itself to be actually effective in killing Jews… it’ll be the last mistake Lebanon makes.

]]> By: Amir in Tel Aviv http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/#comment-12505 Amir in Tel Aviv Fri, 08 Aug 2008 22:29:18 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/#comment-12505 Your post M, is so foolish, desolate and out of focus, that I don't know where to start. So I won't start... . Your post M, is so foolish, desolate and out of focus, that I don’t know where to start.
So I won’t start…
.

]]> By: Solomon2 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/#comment-12504 Solomon2 Fri, 08 Aug 2008 21:38:55 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/08/08/israel-might-do-somethinganything/#comment-12504 <i>the few million Israelis are the whole world</i> Subar Dude, this is unclear. Kindly explain what "the whole world" has to do with it, please. the few million Israelis are the whole world

Subar Dude, this is unclear. Kindly explain what “the whole world” has to do with it, please.

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