The warm reception of Kuntar by the Lebanese has allowed Israeli nutjobs to publish hatred with abandon.
They don’t teach you this in journalism:
The only good thing that happened in the last war [July 2006] was the relative damage caused to Lebanon’s population. The destruction of thousands of homes of “innocents” preserved some of Israel’s deterrent power. The only way to prevent another war is to make it clear that should one break out, Lebanon may be razed to the ground.
You see, apparently women and children deserved to die because the Lebanese as a whole are engaged in a devilish good-cop bad-cop conspiracy against Israel:
What is the real reality in Lebanon? Reality is that Hizbullah and its “rivals” are highly coordinated when it comes to presenting a mirage whereby Hizbullah represents the “bad guys” while the Lebanese government represents the “good guys.” In case of war, Israel would only be allowed to fight the “bad guys,” but it won’t be allowed to target the interests of the “good guys.” The trouble is that it is almost impossible to only hit the “bad guys,” while the “good guys” are immune to us.
That is only matched by Hezbollah’s crazy supporters who say that little Israeli girls deserve to die because they’ll grow up one day to become soldiers and kill Arab children. That said, let’s hope Giora Eiland’s ideas don’t catch on in Israel:
Israel must first and foremost make this clear to its allies. The most effective way to convince anyone is to tell the truth, and the truth is we cannot defeat Hizbullah as long as it is being supported by the Lebanese state. Therefore, if there is again aggression on the part of Lebanon, Israel would have no choice but to fight against the state that is encouraging aggression in practice. Those who had any doubt about the position of the Lebanese state should be reminded of the warm reception for murderer Samir Kuntar on the part of the Lebanese president and government ministers.
Hello, my name is Mustapha and I've been blogging about Lebanese society, business and politics since February 2005.
Whereas I agree that his thoughts represent more of that crap of collective punishment but, you must ask the question:- In the recent past what have the government or the people of lebanon done to convince the nasty evil sinister jooos, and the satans, etc, etc that we should not ALL get blown to kingdom come?
We are ALL going to suffer again and again and again…until we ALL grow up and start behaving like rational human beings instead of brainwashed arab hypocrites and religious idealogues living off of conspiracy theories and bankrupt argmuments based soley on moral equivalence.
regards
Too late, what Eiland is saying is already understood by most Israelis. Israel cannot beat Hizballah without beating Lebanon.
For example, Hizballah was very proud that Al-Manar continued broadcasting througout the July war. But why could Israel not stop them? Simple, because they were using the same infrastructure as all the other Lebanese stations. The same satellite dishes are used to connect to Arabsat by all Lebanese broadcasters. So in order to stop the Al-Manar satlelite broadcasts, all of Lebanon’s broadcasting infrastructure needs to be taken out. Israel was reluctant to do that in July 2006 but it will not be reluctant to do that in the next war.
As Eiland points out, Hizballah is in fact building capabilities to launch rockets from north of the Litani. Why isn’t the Lebanese state stopping them?
We in Israel are tired of excuses and expecially following the Kuntar festival it is clear to us that we have been played for fools.
Actions are what counts. If Lebanon is doing nothing against Hizballah, then Lebanon is de facto collaborating with Hizballah and it is a legitimate target in the next war.
Hopefully, if Lebanese understand the way Israel is thinking, the next war will not happen because Lebanon will convince Hizballah that Lebanon cannot afford such a war. That is the best case scenario. Unfortuantely, the Lebanese in general do not have the ability to convince Hizballah of anything. This is just like a Greek Trajedy in which the hero (Lebanon) walks knowingly to his doom.
It is the property of all democracies that they want results fast. Free Lebanon’s slow, tortuous process of getting absolutely nothing done and being powerless to stop Hizb, Syria, and Iran (whether fairly or not) does not impress people who have to keep hearing about how their country will be destroyed by armed militias at their doorstep, and replaced with another nation entirely (ie. conquered). And raising the level of antagonism towards Israelis in Lebanon does absolutely nothing to help Lebanon, since it only confirms the Lebanon vs. Israel dynamic, that, really, shouldn’t exist at all.
Unfortunately for Lebanon, it is stuck between a rock and a hard place, and only true bravery or colossal power can change things, both of which can and have ripped the country apart. But I believe step one is not encouraging the antagonism. But I guess there is the Arab street cred to think of… *sigh*.
I’m sorry to say that I agree with Giora Eiland. I was sick at heart seeing that Samir Kuntar was welcomed not only by Hezbollah, but also by Seniora, Saad Hariri and Walid Jumblatt. If these are the best examples of “moderate Lebanese”, then I think the world has no use for Lebanon, the next time Israel would be well advised to raze it all to the ground. After all I remember well that, before the war in 2006, Seniora said that Lebanon would be “the last Arab state to make peace with Israel”, but as soon as war broke out, he was crying on tv. If you want a state of war, you have to accept that war has consequences, expecially if you wage it against a state much stronger than you. Next time I hope Israel removes the velvet glove.
After the mascarade reception held for “fantar”(pardon my french)I cant honestly say I blame israelis for anything they say. The message sent from Lebanon that day was that we deserve what happens to us coz we support and celebrate child killers and terrorists, so why are you stunned Mustapha? We asked for it basically!
M: “…let’s hope Giora Eiland’s ideas don’t catch on in Israel”.
It’s too late, I’m afraid.
The only reason the border is so quiet, is only because HZB knows the next war will not be as picnicish and amateurish as the previous one.
So they try to prevent it as hard as they can. Wisely.
The only way to deal with them is through threats and deterrence.
.
wow… I wouldn’t be surprised if Israel would loose again. How many wars do we need, to learn?
To second what shunkleash and some of the rational others have said, until Lebanon grows some backbone and stands up to those who are hijacking the state’s prerogatives, and until the Lebanese themselves take to the streets and begin to hold their government accountable to the repeatedly missed opportunities that their rained on the country (i.e., NO to Hezbollah, NO to linking Lebanon to causes alien to its history and demography,) I say Lebanon DESERVES what’s coming its way. We’re as stupid as EVERY other Arab we labor to dissociate ourselves from, as long as we keep “walking their walk” and regurgitating their cipher.
Please I am tired of this Israeli tough talk…they are the last one to teach us morals. They have already unleashed their savagery on all of us quite a few times and have not spared anything…cluster bombs, destruction of infrastructure, targeting of civilian areas with much ferocity, and an an all out effort to destroy the lebanese economy! Give me a break…they are as much scum bags as Hezb is, as far as I am concerned they deserve one another!
VOR, if we are “as much scum bags as Hezb is”, why do you let one scumbag provoke the other using your territory? Seriously, I understand you have no control in the South; but in the rest of the country, where you ARE the majority, why do you not make it clear to them that YOU will attack them if they attack that other scumbag and give it an excuse to shoot back?
Is Lebanon yours or Hizballah’s?
I think there something seriously wrong with Lebanese mentality.
Lebanon allows everybody who wishes conduct attacks from its territory against sovereign state, does nothing about it and then has balls to claim innocence.
There is no free cheese, people.
VOR, I’m afraid you don’t know wtf you’re talking about. Israel is a sovereign independent state with the right to self defense (and I don’t care how “savage” and “disproportionate” its retaliations to unprovoked attacks are.) Hezbollah, on the other hand, is a non-state actor, with a violent messianic triumphalist ethos, given sanctuary in a (supposedly) “independent” “sovereign” state, ahem a Lebanon that (supposedly) should have the sole prerogative in the conduct of peace, war, and diplomacy. Yet, this “sovereign” “independent” state abdicates to a bunch of thugs, and then somebody like you has the audacity to moan and groan about the “savagery” and the “cluster bombs” and “destruction of infrastructure” and the “targeting of civilian areas with much ferocity”? NO VOR, YOU “GIVE ME A BREAK!” Tell me, what self-respecting nation (worthy of the appelation) would allow its national prerogatives be hijacked by non-state actors and their foreign paymasters, then dare cry foul because of an adversary’s (supposed) disproportionate retaliation?? And you know the saddest thing about this? It’s yours (and other Lebanese’) patronizing refusal to practice a minimum of introspection and self-criticism. But I guess that’s the Arab way; ALWAYS blaming others for your own homegrown pathologies. GET RID of Hezbollah first; we can talk then about “proportionality” and “absence of savagery” in the practice of war. Until then, it is NOT a “break” that you need from the Israelis; what you need is to have a modicum of shame for daring complaining, when the source of the problem is within you–within ME and you, with a minor difference; whereas I have the intellectual integrity to recognize my pathos, you shamelessly don’t!!!.
Get your own freaking home in order before blaming others, okay bud?
LNH,
Unlike you, I care for Lebanon and its people. We do have major issues internally, and I am not shying away from them nor am I naive, but when I see hypocritical comments like yours regarding a nation that has constantly kicked us hard with scorn and contempt, caused thousands of people to be displaced not to mention the unwarranted mass killing of innocent civilians and the use of illegal ordnance that continues to maim and kill many people…that LNH is not warfare, it is barbarism pure and simple. Does Hizbullah deserve what was coming to them? Sure, but israeli retaliation went FAR beyond its inteneded targets and if you cared to look a bit beyond your own misconceptions, you’d realize what their real target is. I’ll let you ponder on that while you cool off a bit, but perhaps that’s asking way too much of you.
By Suleiman,Siniora, and March 14 kissing Samir Kuntar,it demonstrates to the World that Lebanon = Hezbollah.Shame on you Saad Hariri
Hazbani observing.
Contrary to the mythological comments by VOR not “constantly kicked”. When the armistice talk started, after the illegal attack by Lebanon on Israel in 1947 was ended, Israel held Lebanese territory, all was given back and non agression papers were signed. Between about 1949 and 1967 The Israeli Lebanese border was the most peacefull of all the borders of Isreal. There were wars on the other borders, but not on the Lebanese one. Then some body in Lebanon, not Israel, decided on war contrary to all signed agreement and since then we have war, Jordan nd Egypt decided otherwise and not one bullet was shot from Syria to Israel in the last ten years. At about that period (1965 to 1970) all ( 100%) of the Lebanese Jews were ethnically cleaned, talking about states displacing persons.
All warfare is barbarism pure and simple. War is hell and will always be. Kuntar and his masters and their masters want us all in hell.
All the weapons that Israel used are legal according to the laws of war. That is why people are having all kinds of convensions.
You insinuate about some sinister Israeli grand plan, please tell us all, what is the real target of Israel.
In Israel public opinion counts. I think that Hiz. was trying to irritated and cause pain to the Israeli public. We are now mad and in pain. In time we may become more rational. However it is my humble opinion that the pupet masters in Iran have other designs. Let us hope that they will fail. However, also doing things may help. Perhaps, if any body want to talk peace to the Israeli public writing to Israeli blogs may help.
VOR, I HAVE cooled down believe me… but unlike you, I do believe that Israel is a place (call it an entity if you want) that can be reasoned with and spoken to; not so with Hezbollah.
For the rest, I don’t go for the stupid Arab pathos about an eternal Jewish cabal and a continuous Arab victimhood. Hell, I find this inifinitely patronizing of Arabs; but they wouldn’t see it if it bit them in the face. It is not my place to “grade” Israel’s conduct in war; it’s a society that has the requisite transparency and mechanisms for introspection and self-evaluation. All I care about is Lebanon and the Lebanese’ codes of conduct; and from what I can tell, we SUCK! We’re a bunch of unprincipled merchants who don’t deserve to have a country like Lebanon! You’re a perfect example of that rotten ethos; we’re being ruled and yanked around by a bunch of uncouth primitive cavemen bent on a suicidal messianic triumphalist mythology, and ALL you’re worried about the freaking tourist season and our flimsy infrastructure! What good is the brilliant infrastructure and glittering nightlife when the spirit is still stalled in the dark ages?
There is nothing weird about Lebanese hypocrisy, quite the contrary it flows naturally in our blood. And there is nothing that matches this ugly force in a Lebanese but his fake sense of pride for the silliest, under-civilized country in the whole world. We are not people, I wonder if we count as humans; no Lebanese is innocent, women and children included. We deserve much much worse than what has, is and will happen to us.
LNH,
You have your own opinion and it is obviously tainted with hate and contempt for anyone that does not see it your way, so much for a fair exchange of views and ideas. You’re just an expert at lambasting someone who just does not see it your way…try to engage in a more coherent discussion and I might be willing to try and reason with you…funny how you’re staunch in your criticism of these “primitive cavemen” yet you seem bent on following the same code of conduct when someone disagrees with you! My whole point was and still is that Israel is not above reproach and bears as much responsibility in its actions as Hizb does.
“My whole point was and still is that Israel is not above reproach and bears as much responsibility in its actions as Hizb does.”
… and I’m hardly disagreeing with this point if indeed that IS your point. All I’m saying is that, as in any society with a modicum of transparency and freedom of expression, THERE IS such a thing as ACCOUNTABILITY in Israel. Tell me, VOR, who is Hezbollah accountable to in Lebanon? ma kiss ékhta, néko l2akhdar will yébis, they’re a bunch of wacked out death-cult, and you still want them treated at the same level as a state with institutions and an electoral (imperfect as that state–Israel–might be)??? Again, who does Hezbollah answer to? You? Me? The Shiites of Lebanon? YOU, give me a break VOR! You SERIOUSLY need to get your crap together on this one deary!
Call it hate, call it intolerance on my part, call it racism, call it whatever to hell pleases you; the fact remains that Hezbollah is a cancer that needs to be removed before metastasizing, and if removing entails also amputation and disfigurment of the body where it’s embeded, SO BE IT. The times of talking and containing and reasoning have long since passed.
Bravo 3aleyk ya LNH. All what you say is 100% true.
Pingback: Last Week Recap | The Beirut Spring, a Lebanese Blog
Hey VOR…
An argument (or opinion) needs logic to back it, and you lake so much of this. Read Louis-Noel, and learn how to build arguments. That should be your lesson for today.
re-PS: Innocent civilian is not an argument for the tenth million time… Nobody’s dropping a tear (except sanioura pacino) on the “not-so-inocent-civilians-who-hide-katiouchas-under-their-future-terrorsists-kids-beds”
Ralf,
You’re entitled to your twisted logic. As far as LNH’s comments, we had a debate and we both got to speak our minds, which is what the purpose of a blog is supposed to be about. Now go back and play with your toys.
One of my toys is called VOR!!!
To be consistant with our pursuit for logical thoughts. As much as i believe that yes, all of lebanon should be bombed and not only hezbollah, I also believe that the Israeli should bomb Syria and Iran as well, as much as Lebanon. I think that the Israeli that posted in here are as hypocrit as the lebanese that defended Lebanon. True, Lebanon supports hezbollah, but do you dare bombing Syria or Iran who are the major sponsors of that terrorist group? Lets see how strong you are now?
By passively allowing Hezbollah to take over much of the country the Lebanese have done what the Gazans did by electing Hamas. Not only does it send a clear message to Israel, but it also means accepting the consequences. When you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas.
Ralf, would you mind taking your sense of self-righteousness somewhere else?
Unlike you, my friends and I actually live in the neighborhood and do not dream all day long how to bomb every neighbor of ours into oblivion.
Seriously, take a vacation from your smugness – and take a few self-righteous HA supporters with you.
Toda.
Now a question to the Lebanese on the blog – are there other, not as popular, but functional and less extreme Shia support networks than HA? Or some non-Shia organizations that try to provide support/jobs for the Shia?
“Israeli nutjobs to publish hatred”
Mustapha thinks Israelis are some kind of supermen who can hit only the terrorist. Terrorist who don’t wear uniforms, who hide among civilians, even in Beirut.
“You see, apparently women and children deserved to die”
If Arabs cared about their children they would act against, terrorists (or non-governmental militias to Arabs, oops, HZB is in the government).
“the Lebanese as a whole are engaged in a devilish good-cop bad-cop conspiracy against Israel”
You mean like Hamas and PLO? Is Lebanon a state? Then is should act like one.
Do you remember how the STATE of Lebanon punished Nahr al-Bared? Just like Giora suggests.
Lebanon attacks Israel. Lebanese PM cries like a little girl. Two years later hugs child murderer Kuntar.
Would Musta call Siniora and Nasrallah NUT JOBS?
you are all powerless and lack any willpower. you are so funny kissing izra-HELL’s ass. most of all mustapha, indirectly kissing the ass of izra-HELL; the major motivation behind this post and the linking to the article is a sniveling lamentation that: BooHoo, izrael doesn’t like me no more!
mustapha, please post an audio file of yourself crying.
the pro-u.s. march 14 in lebanon, a collection of kleptocrats masquerading as politicians, are without any political foundation, and more importantly without any vision of any kind any more. they will be subdued.
despite all that happened we should seriously think of PEACE…we need to think how to attract people to lebanon how to have international conferences how to beat israel economically not militarely…Whether we like it or not Israel is one of the most developped countries and we could profit alot from it if we had peace… unfortunately in lebanon there are people( hezbollah) thinkin how to have more and more wars and destruction… shame