The Sunni-Shiaa Tension Is Real And Dangerous.
The New York Times reports on grizzly details of Lebanon’s latest ordeal.
He says Hezbollah electrocuted his Genitals (Photo: NY Times)
Hezbollah and Amal appear to be in complete denial that any “Sunni-Shiaa” fitna is taking place in Lebanon. They argue that Hezbollah’s only cause is Jihad against Israel, and that the Sunnis surely must understand this since Hamas, their co-Jihadists, are Sunnis.
If only things were so simple. Today, Robert Worth and Nada Bakri delve deep into the Sunni-Shiaa “ignited fuse” in a homepage report in the New York Times, which starts with a chilling account of the alledged torture of one of Hariri’s men, who was speaking with the Times from the safety of Menieh, a pro-Hariri town in the north:
For two and a half days, Hussein al-Haj Obaid lay on the floor of a darkened warehouse in west Beirut, blindfolded and terrified. Militiamen loyal to Hezbollah had kidnapped him at a checkpoint after killing his nephew right in front of him.Throughout those awful days, as his kidnappers kicked and punched him, applied electrical shocks to his genitals and insulted him with sectarian taunts, he could hear the chatter of gunfire and the crash of rocket-propelled grenades outside, where Hezbollah and its allies were taking control of the capital.
He returned to this northern village only after family members won his release just over a week ago by threatening the kidnappers with retaliation. By that time Mr. Obaid, a Sunni Muslim, had gained a whole new way of seeing his Shiite countrymen and his native land.
I recommend you read the entire thing.
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Hello, my name is Mustapha and I blog in The Beirut Spring about Lebanese society and politics. I started in February 2005 after the killing of P.M. Rafik Hariri.
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It looks like news on Hizbullah’s atrocities started to come out!
May God help Lebanon!
Mustapha,
With all respect, which I think you already know I have for you personally, But I need to state that the one who’s talking about it… wants to make an issue out of it.
The more you talk about a Sunni-Shiite feud, the more it will become an issue. Is that a purposely made intention?
Fly me to the moon
… and let me play among the stars
… Let me see what spring is like On Jupiter and Mars
Jester,
Yes, We should make an issue of it – not only from HA/Amal – but also the Halba “issue” and all others. It may be painful, but it’s the way to solve/move on.
Or, you think it’s better to bury all those “issues”, just to see them making a great “come back” the next time ?
(dream mode on)
With luck and good will, after those “issues” are solved – with no guns – there won’t be a “next time”
(dream mode off – you can laugh now)
Btw, Mus isn’t spreading sectarian hate here.
Bullshit,
Look who is writing about it , THE NEW YORK TIMES, trust me I live in New york and I have met a lot of people who work there , it is always a hit and miss with the times when it comes to the middle east .
Why didn’t the Times write about the Helba massacre , and told us what the mostaqbal sunnis did to the ssnp sunnis.
It is not about sects , Talal Areslan is druze with the opposition and Walid Junblatt is druze with the government , and Jaajaa vs oun and more and more examples .
We all know that it is a political dilemma , united states and Israel and Saudi arabia have been pushing the sectarian buttons to weaken HA and Syria and Iran .
Trust me this is all connected to Palestine . No justice No peace.
More denial lewaa. Ad hominem attacks on the times won’t change reality. Take it from someone who lives in tripoli. The halba people were killed precisely because they were perceived as Sunni traitors working for the shiaas.
Perhaps Sunni bitterness and frustration are neither waranted nor fair, but the edgy emotions are real and dangerous, and they shouldn’t be ignored.
It starts with “jihad” against Israel,
and ends up with “jihad” against your countrymen,
as we see in Afghanistan, Iraq, Gaza, Morocco,
and now Lebanon.
“Trust me this is all connected to Palestine . No justice No peace.”
Yes, of course. Historical texts all note that the Mossad traveled back in time more than 1000 years and murdered Hussein in Karbala.
There is no bias if Mustapha reports the facts as they are, no matter the level of atrocity. After the smoke has cleared, there are stories surfacing also from the Jabal.Some are exaggerated,some are real, nevertheless, these things need to be reported.
The fighting looks like it is political but started to turn to a secterian. Here are the news that I have:
- The Arslan (Druze) supporters who were leading the Hizbullah’s fighters into the Druze areas turned around and started fighting Hizbullah.
- Karami (Sunni) followers joined the Future Movement fighting in Tripoli.
- Aoun (Christian) followers were scared of Hizbullah’s plans that they may turn to them after they are done with the Sunni and Druze, decided to have Plan B (protect their areas from Hizbullah even if they will be uprooted by Geagea followers)!
So please don’t deny that it is a secterian war.
Just for the people who were not old enough in the 1975-77 period, we heard the same talk. It is not a religious “ta’efia” war. After 2 years of fighters, it was obvious that it is a ta’efia war.
Let’s hope that HA will recognize its mistakes and go and fight Israel instead of implementing its masters’ plans: Syria and Iran.
From time to time someone must ask himself, why is Iran showing all of this interest in little Lebanon. There being little of economic interest (no petroleum, minerals, etc.) it must be something else. Some people actually believe that Iran is truly interested in the well being of the citizens. Unfortunately, and more than a few believe, Iran is going for military and religious dominance of the region. If they control the military power (and they do through Hezbullah) then the religious control easily follows – from the barrel of a gun, as Mao would have put it. Of course there is the Palestine/Israel issue – a good excuse to keep Hezbullah stockpiled with all those weapons. But haven’t we all noticed that those guns were pointed at fellow Lebanese recently? And as far as I can tell from the information available most of the killing was by Shiaa against Sunni? Sounds like the sort of tension that builds into all out civil war. Sounds like it’s time for Syria to come in riding on a white horse promising to restore “law and order” again. The pattern is not newly invented. Create a crisis then move in promising to control the disorder.
Now seems like a good time for the bad guys to cause trouble. If the U.S. is going to attack Iran (unlikely for a lot of reasons) then Iran needs a diversion with Hezbullah trying for another “divine victory” in taking on Israel. The current U.S. president is on his way out and, probably, the Israeli one too. Transitional periods are tricky for any government. So, there’s Lebanon. If Iran’s approach works that’s fine for Iran. If it doesn’t, and Lebanon winds up looking like an earthquake victim, well, Iran makes it through without a scratch.
The likelihood of a great leader suddenly emerging who can unite all of the people and cut foreign influence is more likely to be found in a Hollywood movie than in reality. Time to fasten your safety belt!
Mustapha,
Once again you lie. You disingenuously trumpet something, for which there is absolutely no proof, but fail to report on atrocities which were captured on video tape. You value Jew York Times propoganda, over information caught on video.
There is no evidence of this person’s allegations. He, like you, could be a US/Israeli sympathizer hoping to start a civil war to advance his master’s agenda.
In the link below, however, you will find video of a horrendous massacre by the US/Israeli side. They disarmed ten fighters. They then executed them. Then, savagely, they chopped up their bodies with axes. Finally, they went into the hospital to do the same to any wounded being treated there. AND THEY RECORDED ALL OF THIS, AND WE HAVE THE VIDEO.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f4c_1210684354
You are a despicable traitor.
“Why is Iran showing all of this interest in little Lebanon.”
Iran isn’t showing any interest in Lebanon. Hezbollah are millions of Lebanese. Iran only armed them so they could expel the Israeli invader, which must have been a terrible day for you Israeli agents.
Again, your entire movement is based on a lie. That’s why you have no support. You are disingenous and fraudulent, and everyone sees this. No one will fight for a lie.
Back to the second&third comment: It’s not that we shouldn’t talk about what happened. It’s just that we don’t have to cast it in Sunni/Shi’a terms.
If we see everything of the past week in sectarian terms, it becomes an issue that is eternal and unsolvable (after all, one sect is different from another and this will not change). If we manage to see it as human beings against each other, who may themselves justify it in sectarian terms, we might be able to find a solution. Might.
Abdul – I missed America’s funniest home videos today, but I am glad I dropped in here to see you make a fool of yourself as usual. Are you naturally that stupid or do you force yourself just to provide us with top grade entertainment?
“Then, savagely, they chopped up their bodies with axes. Finally, they went into the hospital to do the same to any wounded being treated there”
Abdul, you are nothing but a HA propagandist, plain and simple. The video link you provided showed nothing of the gruesome atrocity you describe. Only couple of bloodied dead bodies, the rest is fabrication of your own twisted and sick imagination.
MLK:
Albeit I don’t have any proof – to confirm or deny – I wouldn’t dismiss so easily the “chooped parts”, after all, we know first-hand how low the human being can get.
Abdul:
I won’t re-hash all those arguments already posted in this blog, like:
i) why HA didn’t merged with the army after the “zionists” lefted, so the army as a whole could learn from the “glorious resistence”
ii) Why, if HA wasn’t happy with the road the country was going, waited for elections, got elected and then, implemented their policy – if elected.
iii) While their condition is sub-human (and it’s a shame on us) why is a red line for HA removing the palis guns
iv) Who on the ELECTED cabinet, let HA do a hostile action cross-board that led to a war ?
v) …
So, use the search feature, read and judge – by yourself – as aptly posted by Leb Christian, stop making yourself a fool. Are you sure your friend don’t call you a 7imar ?
:)
They have effectively merged with the army. Did you see the army fighting Hezbollah? They backed Hezbollah against Siniora the traitor.
1. The video shows execution style gunshots, and axe wounds. Are you suggesting they were axed before they were shot?
2. I didn’t link to the most explicit videos, which can be found in the link below.
THE PEOPLE YOU SAVAGES EXECUTED AND AXED WERE SUNNIS. THEIR ONLY CRIME WAS NOT ALIGNING WITH YOUR TERRORIST ISRAELI AGENTS.
You are traitors pure and simple, and you will be dealt with appropriately should you ever try to spread your wretched evil in Lebanon.
http://forum.tayyar.org/f8/halba-massacre-survivors-story-34085/
1. The video shows execution style gunshots, and axe wounds. Are you suggesting they were axed before they were shot?
2. I didn’t link to the most explicit videos, which can be found by doing a search for “Halba massacre.” I can’t link it here because Mustapha the censor doesn’t allow links to forums which may contradict his message. That’s his disingenuous idea of freedom of speech.
THE PEOPLE YOU SAVAGES EXECUTED AND AXED WERE SUNNIS. THEIR ONLY CRIME WAS NOT ALIGNING WITH YOUR TERRORIST ISRAELI AGENTS.
You are traitors pure and simple, and you will be dealt with appropriately should you ever try to spread your wretched evil in Lebanon.
According to Hezbollah and the pasty Orangettes – any report that does not show them in a “good” light is bias, a lie and Zionist. They do what they can to silence all voices so they can re-write history to please themselves and influence others. Hezbollah has an excellent propaganda team that is spread all over the world.
It looks like the Hezbo version is going to be that the US/Israel “attacked” Lebanon and Hezbo “saved the day”. It was their story after Hezbo attacked Israel in July ‘06 and the Lebanese accepted that … it may actually work this time also. The Orangettes already believe this and are going to be instrumental is selling the Hezbo propaganda.
Will Lebanese believe this new fairy tale? I’m guessing not – but, I’ve been wrong before.
pasty = patsy/cover
Abdul – Wow! Your lines of reasoning, while of no interest to the rest of us, would be invaluable to evolutionary biologists, psychologists and anthropologists. The possibility that your position on the evolutionary tree was halted for some reason before reaching the next stage – the Neanderthals – would indeed be exciting for researchers.
The Halba massacre is a very serious thing, as are the shootings on the Beirut funeral procession. FM-ers or loyalists cannot wiggle themselves out of this: it’s brutal, plain and simple. And Barabarian.
The army who were so “smart” standing on the sidelines throughout should NOW do their job, pick up the perpertrators on BOTH sides, and throw them in jail….before the whole country is dragged into sectarian violence.
A-Kara:
On the mark. +1
Adbul:
“They have effectively merged with the army. Did you see the army fighting Hezbollah? They backed Hezbollah against Siniora the traitor.”
1) Tell me, why the HA didn’t “joined” the army in nahr el-bared ?
2) Why the south was forbidden place for the army and the state until HA got it’s ass kicked from there ?
3) Why wait until the election, or “pushing hard” INSIDE the parliament with the ELECTED representants, or demanding accountability from them ? just get some guns and start the party…
Sorry “dude”, the army just looked to the other side when your “uber-glorious” militia was desecrating the city, or when the Halba folks were killed.
Shame on the army, Shame on HA, Shame on the Halba’s FM, Pity the nation.
Mustapha,
I agree with you that the Sunni-Shia tensions are rising and are pretty dangerous. Actually they have been increasing for the last three years, and they have been fueled by politicians on both sides, and by the glorious media outlets from all sides.
In sectarianism though no one is right, both sides are wrong. the premise of the argument is wrong to start with..so the point is not to see who is the more or less evil, the point should be what to do to try and slow this spread of sectarianism..what to do as an educated group of people from both sides, who do not think about the issue in sectarian terms. Theres is no doubt that there is a big difference in opinion between the 2 camps, but I believe the difference in opinion is political at the core and not really sectarian, it is a different vision of how Lebanon should be..the sectarian addition is being fueled because it is the easiest way to rally the masses..and the sad thing everybody is engaging in it, EVERYBODY..Future is no better than Al Manar (and vice versa)..it does not matter who started it..it will matter a lot who will be courageous enough and wise enough not to engage in such talk or such thinking..It would matter a lot to keep the discussions around the political issues that are quite important.
I know it is hard when one is personally involved, but unless each one of us makes a conscious huge effort not to fuel the sectarianism we are all doomed.
In fact, I know there is no hope and it is already too late, but still I think each one of us should at least at a personal level truly refuse such thinking.
Abdul,
“You are traitors pure and simple, and you will be dealt with appropriately should you ever try to spread your wretched evil in Lebanon.”
That’s your problem you moron, anyone disagrees with you is a traitor. While your type selling the country to the Iranian thugs are considered the true Lebanese.
It must be frustrating to be pro-HA these days after witnessing what these terrorists did to their own country. I know it’s hard to bare Abdul, maybe you should just start listening to the truth rather than your sayed’s rubbish.
As for your delusional threats they won’t intimidate us for you proofed nothing in your latest attacks except that you are frustrated and angry street hooligans. This time Beirut will be ready for you, we’ll treat you like the sewage pests you are. Bring it on mullah…
and the saddest part is, there is no such thing as a religious war. Don’t be fooled for a second that the leaders of each side care about religion, all they’re after is power.
And like @2:41AM already said, religion is used as a tool to rally the masses. Most people don’t want to die for leader X, but they have no problem sacrificing their lives for God Y.
Abdul,
I fully condem the killings in halba by whatever murderous psychopaths live there and whatever side they are on.
Do you fully condem the killings of innocent civilians (including unarmed men, women,and children) in Beirut by murderous psychopaths Hizabllah, amal and SSNP?
If not, who is the real traitor to their country?
The New York Times reports on grizzly details…
Umm, GRIZZLY is a bear.
You mean GRISLY.
Using spellcheck is not enough.
Guys,
Forget about that moron Abdul….
Is there any article that listed all the atrocities done by HizbIran and their allies in Beirut??
I don’t know why you guys bother replying to Abdul. He is obviously here to incite stupidity and detract from civil and mature discussion.
He’ll torpedo every argument he doesn’t like by saying “it’s a lie made up by Jews and Zionists”, regardless of any proof based in fact. Just ignore him and carry on with your discussion folks.
I think the matter at hand in this post by Mustapha (in which he was pretty even handed by alluding to both alleged HA abuses AND those of M14 sympathizers in Halba) is whether the latest events should be viewed as part of “fitna” or not.
In my opinion, they clearly are. I agree with the opinion stated above that we shouldn’t sweep this stuff under the rug, or pretend it’s not there. Mus was not inciting religious hatred, but he is clearly trying to face the fact, on the ground, that it is here and it is real. And the sooner we accept that reality, the sooner we can start working a solution to it, rather than living in denial (as Lebanese are so prone to doing) until it’s too late.
BV – I know that somebody suggested you ought to run for political office. While your obvious intelligence, maturity, firm grasp of reality, sincerity and such would put you at a disadvantage given the current crop of disorganized, self centerered, doubtful facts dispensing, etc. group of politicians, you’d get my vote.
ya bronx, if it would a “elect a blogger personality” – sectarism aside – imagine the “damage” this list would do:
BV – brezident! :)
AK – PM
Mus – Head/Speaker of parliament
JW – defense minister (some heat in sleiman ass)
Jeha – foreign minister (now the levant burns)
BJ – Ministry of Interior (whip the ISF)
Failasoof – Health
Frenchy – Culture :)
Marillionlb – finances (c’mon, the guy owns a resturant – it must make profit)
Tony B2B – Ogero (divine sayyed fox hole area code will be 666)
The problem of doing things by memory is that you can forget lots of folks, but – hey – it’s the public service, there’s always place for one more….
Fell free to improve/expand :)
Almost forgot:
Ghassan – justice :)
You just might be on to something, Bozo. Given the existing crop of politicians there are chances that your list would be an improvement.