Man have a little bit more respect for the man who says it as it is. I’ve had enough of the garbage politically correct language that some try to use in Lebanon. We are beyond trying to spread some idealistic vision of delusional unity in Lebanon. At this point we are beyond rational discussions and politically correct statements. Lets just say it as it is. Its a struggle for survival and you don’t use polite words or politically correct statements to do it. Why should we? Are you honestly trying to win over the ignorant masses that support Hezb and FPM??? You think being a little bit sensitive about the FACTS of sectarian divide will help when they have 30000 rockets and their armed men are now visible in non-hezb areas? It is an invasion. The only armed presence I want is the Lebanese Army and if they REFUSE to interfere than what do people do to protect their interests and vision of Lebanon???? Give hezb militia men flowers and hope that my decency makes them lay down their arms???

C’mon man I’m an idealist but I’m fed up of March 14’s inability to take decisive action and state the facts!!! Its a struggle for survival against a militia that is slowly taking over Lebanon.

Mus, your Sunni sensitivities aside, I think this guy’s bold rhetoric ought to be commanded. This government keeps failing to protect its people from the HA terrorists: illegal tents, blocking roads to the airport, continually challenging ISF authority, on and on… Might as well hand over the country to HA.

For those who forgot that ugly history of Jouzou:

The guy was the heaviest supporter for killing christians during the civil war.

Lebanese tend to forget their history and what their religious/political figures represent!

Guys,
When are we going to stand up to the thugs of Hizballah? If we don’t, the March 8 will be all over us. Do you recall the Arab University incident? If the resident did not fight back, Hizballah thugs will enter their bedrooms! I think your post is ridiculous and nonsense!!!

By the way, the people in Saddeiat are my relatives and you don’t know what they went through! You better go there and see what have done by the thugs of HA!!!

yup…

lets forget everyone’s history…geagea killed a lot of sunnis…but that was in the past…im a HUGE supporter of geagea TODAY…

While I don’t necessarily agree with Jouzou’s views, one has to wonder why the double standard. Why is he being chastised for this hate speech while we hear much much worse from Aoun and Hizbullah almost on a DAILY basis. Did you guys forget Nassrallah’s threat to “cut off the hands” of anyone who tries to take away his weapons? Or his daily accusations of “Feltman’s government” or whatever else insults he could come up with? Are you gonna tell me that doesn’t make him just as “foul mouthed” if not worse?

And don’t even get me started on the disgusting comments about Israeli body parts.

Yeah, Mufti Jouzou is saying what’s on everyone’s mind. Foul mouthed or not. And he has a point when it comes to the government protecting its citizens. It is the Lebanese Army and Security Forces duty to protect its citizens (sunnis and shia alike) from violence. But the government has been, so far, powerless to do so (contrary to Michel Suleiman’s assertions that he’s got everything under control).

If I recall, Hizbullah’s excuse has always been “The government doesn’t do enough to protect us from Israel and is incapable of defending us.”

I imagine, by the same logic, the other sects in Lebanon (Sunnis, Christians, etc) have every right to make the same argument when they’re being attacked in their neighbourhoods. So it doesn’t surprise me the least bit that they’re getting armed and starting to talk about taking their own security in their own hands, when the government fails to do so.

Is it right? of course not!

But see, this is the pitfall you fall into when you allow ONE group to keep their weapons. This was the problem with Taef. This was the problem with the Lebanese government enshrining the “Resistance” and accepting a state within a state over the years. You make a special exception for one group, you allow them to carry weapons, which they will undoubtedly abuse. You allow one group to operate outside the state institutions…and you’re surprised when other groups start wanting to operate outside the state’s institutions? hah!

That is why I’ve said, time and again, the rule of law must be SUPREME. There can be no exceptions. No “outside the law”. No “one time amendments”. That crap simply doesn’t work, people. Once you make an exception for ONE guy, everyone else will use that as an excuse to demand their own exceptions be made.

This is a perfect example of why Lebanon has always been and remains a FAILED state. There is no state. The government is incapable of protecting its citizens, and different groups are going to continue taking matters in their own hands, getting armed, enforcing their own security, enforcing their own idea of vigilante justice for crimes the government isn’t solving (Whatever happened to the 2 Ziads? Forgotten already?).

Guys,

I see your point and understand where you’re coming from, but when did it start becoming OK for March 14 to leave the moral high ground?

If we stoop down to the level of the militias, what would then separate us from those Thugs and Terrorists? Wasn’t the entire point of March 14 to establish a strong state with a monopoly on armed forces?

If we accept the logic of facing thuggery with thuggery, we let them win and prove them right, that this is not a war between a good system and a bad one, but rather a power struggle between blood thirsty and uncivilized tribes who have no notion whatsoever of statehood.

I refuse to accept that this is what people like Gebran Tueni died for.

Mustapha, as I said: It is NOT acceptable to stoop down to the level of the opposition.
I think what i’m saying here is that this phenomenon highlights the fact that March 14 is failing to govern (as if we didn’t know this already).

You said: “Wasn’t the entire point of March 14 to establish a strong state with a monopoly on armed forces?”

Exactly! That was the entire point. And March 14 has FAILED at doing that. And the fact that M14 did NOT take on Hizbullah (which was the one armed group outside the state to this point) is giving others the excuse to set up their own militias. The good old argument of “If they get to do it, so should we.”

This bit of news here is not so much about arguing whether the Sunnis will stoop down to the level of Hizb (I think that kinda goes without saying), but rather this bit of news serves to highlight what path is to come if the government fails to apply the rule of law once and for all, to EVERYONE, with no exceptions.

Heck, I mean, march 14, which was supposed to be “setting up a strong state with a monopoly on armed forces” is STILL busy praising the “Resistance”, accusing Israel of being responsible for everything, and Michel Suleiman is making calls to Bashar Assad today, talking about the 2 armies “cooperating”.

What world are these people living in?

We are not leaving the moral high ground, we are protecting ourselves!!! We will not go and attack them in their houses, but if they come to our houses we will deal with them.
Remember the saying: “High fences make good neighbors!”

I am for a strong government with weapons in the hands of the government ONLY!!!

Mustapha, i agree with you.
As much as I’m a march 14 supporter, I don’t like the guy.
He was the one fuelling the tension between christians and muslims in 1975.
He also told the Christians, five years ago, to go back to Syria if they’re not happy with the Syrians in Lebanon…

He’s like wind to the big fires..

If we stoop down to the level of the militias, what would then separate us from those Thugs and Terrorists? Wasn’t the entire point of March 14 to establish a strong state with a monopoly on armed forces?

Ah, but “the opposition” is preventing the operation of the Lebanese state. So if you don’t wish to “stoop to their level”, aren’t you just giving them the country by default?

Mk

On contrary, we shouldn’t forget history and what these guys made to the lebanese

shouldn’t we forget the appeal of Joumblatt in 84 asking simply to eliminate “the bloody leader of Lebanon” as talking about Amine Gemayel?

Forgetting never, forgiving maybe but at least they should as our mercy.

PS: the political archive of Tele Liban disappeared by one of Rafic Hariri’s latest decree as PM.

He just transfered these archive to the Future TV.

2 questions to raise right now:
Why a private institution control our memories?
Why to protect warlord’s civil crimes?

All our political class should be going on trial, including those that destroyed our collective memories.

“yup”, if those are the 2 questions that you think are the most deserving of our time and effort right now, there really is no point in continuing to pretend we have a country.

I am constantly amazed at the degree of pettyness and the little ticky-tack stuff people want to argue about, while losing sight of the big picture (Lebanon is going down in flames).

The house is on fire, and this guy is standing in the living room, surrounded by flames, and complaining about how his wife overcooked the roast. NEWFLASH, IDIOT! YOUR HOUSE IS ON FIRE!

As for never forgetting. Sure. If the point of never forgetting is to LEARN LESSONS FROM THE PAST.

But apparently, there are a lot of people here, such as “yup” who are more interested in never forgetting for the sake of settling scores and getting their revenge.

If you never forget and you don’t give people a second chance (people have been known to change you know!) then EVERYONE is guilty. Then there is no hope of ever reuniting Lebanon. The Christians should always hate the Druze (for what was done to them in the Chouf). The Palestinians should always hate the Christians. The Shia should always hate the Palestinians and everyone else for keeping them down. The Sunnis should always hate the Syrians for murdering Hariri. And everyone basically always hates everyone else for something that happened at some point in time.

What’s the point of talking about reconciliation? What’s the point of pretending to talk about agreeing on a state, a president, a constitution, or anything else. Let’s each go our separate ways.

As for your 2 dumb questions, even though they are not worth addressing, I will “stoop down” and answer them.
If you are really relying on Lebanon TV for your memories, then there’s something wrong with you. Memories are collective. We don’t need a tv station to remind us of past crimes. Every one of us was somehow affected by the crimes of the past. Some of us lost family members and remember every time we see a picture of said loved one on the mantle. Some of us remember every time we drive by a certain building, still scarred by bullet holes. Some of us remember, who lived in Damour or Karantina, or countless other places. We don’t need a stinking TV station to remind us.

As for protecting warlord crimes: An amnesty was declared in 1991 for all crimes prior for the very sake of enabling us to MOVE ON. Clearly, we haven’t yet. But if Lebanon is to emerge at some point in time, you and people like you WILL NEED TO MOVE ON! Or else the ancient hatreds will remain with us forever and we’ll never rebuild the nation.

It has been shown that reconciliation, although hard, DOES work, in places like Rwanda, South Africa, etc. It has been shown that it is clearly the better way to move forward, and that choosing the alternate path (retribution and punishment for everyone who ever committed a crime) only perpetuates the cycle of violence and crime by one side over another.

But I suspect this level of discourse is too advanced for the petty Lebanese populace…

[...] Lebanon is a foul-mouthed demagogue who needs to be demoted as soon as possible,” writes Beirut Spring from Lebanon. Posted by Amira Al Hussaini Share [...]

[...] Lebanon is a foul-mouthed demagogue who needs to be demoted as soon as possible,” writes Beirut Spring from Lebanon. Posted by Amira Al Hussaini Share [...]

I don’t want to get into what Jouzou said, and he’s probably a Leb version of Jeremiah Wright (saw on him TV, quoting ex French commie and now Moslem Roger Garaudy that the US was behind 9/11).

My Point: It was enough, before Taef, when we had the Mufti of the Republic involved in politics (and the Imamo and the Pat..). No we (or M14) need the Mufti of Mount Lebanon to make a lousy point??

Saad Hariri is a frigging failure: no vision, no balls, no way with words, too Saudi, and too out of touch and on top of it he just took TWO frigging months of vacation in the midst of the current crisis.

But hey, Solidere is busy demolishing the last 2 buildings of any architectural or historical value in downtown for the sake of LOOObnan.

Shiite, Sunnies… Black, White… Francophones, Anglophones… You, me.

I strongly recomend listening to todays post on theinnercircle.wordpress.com

Sorry Mustapha… I know it’s not ethical to put a link in here, but if you listen to it, I have a hunch you’d agree.

you’re out to lunch dude, the mufti has the balls and the guts to tell it as it is.

I agree with Mustapha, its not Jouzou’s place to speak-up against hizz’s outrageous behavior. Its a politician’s job not a man of religion, we already had enough of those meddling in politics as it is. Since 05(except for the late Tueni) M14 failed to produce a credible and effective media spokesman(woman)to denounce and condemn M8 for what they really are, thugs and criminals. Jouzou is just another example of this failure.

[...] ديماغوجي معيب ويجب أن يقال في أقرب وقت.” تكتب مدونة ربيع بيروت من [...]

Guys,

Rather than striving to emule the likes of Wahad and Qandil, may be we all should bring down our ambitions, and settle for emulating someone like Tueni or Kassir.

… Oh, how the mighty has fallen.

Bad Vilbel

Bad you are and bad you will be

We do not have a collective memory but we have communities memories. Most of what is happening is because of that simple conviction that we did not learn from our history as SIMPLE MINDED like you have their memories stolen by leaders.

If the population was really remembering about what geagea did, what joumblatt did, what berri did, what jouzou said etc… We would have been having a real revolution and not getting our revolution confiscated.

But sheep you are and sheep you ll be forever without thinking about how to make the population waking up with the use of the memories confiscated today.

No wonder why i despise the 14 whatever as much as i hate the opposition….
The so called majority,pierce our ears everyday with their speaches about building a real country based on law,order,freedom,sovereignity,democracy,but what did they do to prove it?????just fake speaches and lies….
But when it comes to actions,what do they do??????they just follow the rules their syrian ex masters thought them,and act as the lowest opposition thug…..
If you just agree on someone like Jouzou,you guys just cannot critisize the opposition then,and lets call it fair play and begin thug war between the two parties…..
I totally agree with you yup,the guys don’t want a country,they just want to keep the power in their hands,and lead the sheep base

Since HZB well understands the meaning of force
(look at the LEB-ISR border, that was never quieter than in the last 21 months),
it is sometimes necessary to use the language of threat.
.

For those of you who claim that a man of religion should not get involved in politics, let me remind you that Hassan Nasrallah and Patriach Sfeir are men of religion and are deeply rooted in politics. Although Sfeir is no way near the arrogance of Nasrallah, this mufti may be the answer to Nasrallah dictatorial behavior.
Somebody has to say the truth and it doesn’t matter who it is as long as the truth is exposed and brought up to the surface

I love how you guys don’t seem to get up in arms when other men of religion like Hassan Nassrallah, Patriarch Sfeir, Fadlallah speak up on a daily basis with much more ‘foul’ language than Jouzou’s.

Again, I’m not saying I approve of the guy’s message, but it’s very telling how you people react to it. Lebanese are living in denial and anytime someone slaps you with the harsh (and sometimes foul) truth in the face, you get all riled up. You’d rather keep on living in a fantasy world, and you’d rather hear the inane platitudes about “brotherly love” and “common arab cause” and “unified Lebanon” that the other politicians pander to you on a daily basis, while they’re busy stabbing each other in the back, than to hear the ugly truth that there is no “unified Lebanon”.

And i find it amusing that those here who have issue with what I said seem to bring up “What Geagea, Jumblatt, etc. ” did in the past, but manage to omit Hassan Nassrallah and Michel Aoun from that list. How convenient.

You people should really be ashamed of yourselves instead of being incensed by Jouzou’s comments. All I read here is hypocrisy and double standards.

Tell you what. Go demonstrate and make your voices heard about how foul mouthed Hassan Nassrallah and Aoun are first, since those guys have been foul almost every day for the past 3 years…And when we’re done with those two, we can get to Jouzou.
You guys want to keep men of religion out of politics. Fine by me. But let’s start by marching down on Dahieh and Bkirki, and getting Nassrallah, Fadlallah and Sfeir to take a long vacation from the public eye. Then we can get to Jouzou. How’s that?

“….Nothing is more logical than persecution. Religious tolerance is a kind of infidelity.”

Ambrose Bierce, Collected Works (1912), quoted from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief

BV, I think you should run for president man, are u a Maronite ;)

It’s a pity people like you giving up on Lebanon. Clearly your insightful arguments are a total waste on some of these dim-wits to comprehend.

No. I am not a maronite. But I am flattered. And i hope there comes a day where you can say to me (or to anyone else): “I hope you run for president” based on my “insightful arguments” and not based on “are you a maronite”.

Sectarianism remains the root cause of ALL this crap we’re arguing about here, and ALL that ails Lebanon. Not foreign interference. Not Syria. Not Israel. Those are all symptoms that take advantage of the real problem: Sectarianism.

All our problems (including Israel, Syria, Palestinians, Foreign interferance, etc) can be attributed to one fact and one fact only: The Lebanese people are divided based on sect and put their sectarian loyalty above that of the Lebanese state. Everything else stems from that. The day everyone believes in Lebanon FIRST, all of a sudden, it will be immaterial that you’re a sunni or a shia or a maronite. All of a sudden, you won’t have ANY reason to do what Syria tells you to do, or what Israel tells you to do, or what Iran tells you to do. It’s really that simple, sadly. People make it a lot more complicated than it needs to be.

You know how we could resolve everything in a week? (yes, a week! tops!).

All these asshats get together in parliament, pass a decree abolishing sectarianism completely, at all levels. That’s all it would take. Seriously.

Pass that decree from Parliament, and then call for general elections in a month’s time. Not based on Qada or whatever, no lists, no sectarian allotment. Have everyone vote for whoever they damn well please who declares his candidacy. Have the new parliament in question vote for a president. Again, anyone who wants to submit their candidacy can do so, and has to do so officially by filing with the interior ministry. No back room deals. No names being submitted by self-appointment consensus leaders. The list of all candidates is public and well known to everyone. Then you go in and you vote for one of those names. Period.

Do that and you should have a fair representation of what the people want (shia, sunnis, christians alike). After that, no one can claim “The shia are not getting their due” or “I represent 80% of the Christians” or any of that shit.

Game over.

Just wanted to share with you guys something I heard on the television show house m.d this week….

If a caveman was running with a spear in his hand at three other cavemen, one of them runs, one decides to fight, and one smiles…who do you think survives?

When someone comes at you with a spear after 2 years of attempted dialogue I think the moral high ground is pretty much non-existant. Lets sit and smile maybe we’ll get buried and some historian will mention how we took the moral high ground.

Yes we have come far from being cavemen. We are in a civilized WORLD…but read the newspapers and you’ll see that some places still live in the dark ages…africa…DARFURR….IRAQ…LEBANON…etc. So I’m prepared to take the moral high ground once you get rid of those barbaric cavemen..im not prepared to spend my life handing them flowers and smiling at them while they conquer me and my vision for this country…I think march 14 has pretty much tried using all the civility and moral high ground there is to spare…but once again and I’m sorry to sound crass but I’m fed up.. you don’t dine with dogs do you..you don’t try to have a rational conversation with your dog (even though it would make a lot more sense than talking to any of the opposition members)…you don’t smile at your dog if he suddenly becomes CUJO…likewise you can’t treat the opposition like members of modern civilization…and please spare me the idealistic bullshit..ive tried it..it just doesnt work…march 14 have tried it for 3 years and there is no evidence it is ever going to work…its like inviting CUJO for dinner and he bites your leg off…you invite him again and he bites your other leg…you’re sitting there maimed…and your brother invites him once again and he attacks you..just when you decide to kick his ass…your brother asks you to hand him a flower!!

I’m sorry this is such a bad example but thats how fed up i am…

It’s actually not that bad of an example.

BV,

I hear you man. Though for the record there was subtle cynicism in the question ‘are u a Maronite’..

car in insurance quote toronto…

reappears sates Goldfield,dissonant …