Aoun’s Enemy Switching
How Aoun convinced the FPM supporters not to care about Syria anymore.
Still on the march…
Has it ever baffled you that the Aounists are still sticking with their leader despite his new alliance with his old Syrian nemesis?
Last Wednesday, the Syrian Foreign Minister couldn’t make it clearer that he supports Mr. Aoun. And yet even veteran Aounists who used to resist Syria are arguing that it’s good thing. How come?
To understand, one has to look way back at the years where Aoun took the popular position of resisting the Syrians. We all thought back then that he was doing it because it was the right thing to do, but many of us are learning today that he did it because Syria was the only thing standing between him and power.
In the course of the anti-Syrian years, Mr. Aoun built a personality cult. Hardcore followers trusted what he said to be the right thing and believed him when he insinuated that the real enemies today are the Sunnis, not the Syrians. They believed him when he said that the real dictators live in Koreitem and the Seraille, not in Anjar and Damascus.
Indeed, tayyar.org is filled with anti-Hariri (father and son), anti Seniora, anti ISF and anti-Saudi hatred. The Syrians on the other hand are conspicuously absent. In fact, the Syrians are now implicitly portrayed as allies against the new bad guys and Aoun’s Christian opponents are regularly smeared as “on the payroll of Mr. Hariri”.
Aoun has effectively switched enemies and is now focusing on the evil Saudi-backed “Wahhabis”. By doing that he pulled off a seemingly impossible feat: He kept the energy of his rebellious supporters but made them no longer care about Syria.
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Hello, my name is Mustapha and I blog in The Beirut Spring about Lebanese society and politics. I started in February 2005 after the killing of P.M. Rafik Hariri.
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so your rationale is that once an enemy, always an enemy? that fits in perfectly with the Bush administration’s manichean view of the world. you M14ers would make your bosses in D.C. and Tel Aviv proud.
Please do not take this the wrong way…However; the Maronites have been on a self cannibalizing and self destructive mode for decades. Let’s not attribute it as an “orangehead” phenomenon. Through history there are numerous instances through every president’s term of this disease.
Those who are in the enlightened crowd already live in Canada, USA, Australia etc…
If you have a group of people who profess to be Maronites yet swear at their church and spiritual leader on a daily basis, one wanders what are their religious beliefs based on?
I am not and will not be the last one who says this. The %age of Maronites (and Christians consequently) in Lebanon will be less than 5% in 10 years time if not sooner. So HA and others who wish to chip away at the other “communities” would have achieved their goal. Time of smoke and mirrors would be gone. Reality will sink in and Lebanon will be Islamized. Whether this will be a hub of Sunni/Shiite conflict remains to be seen on whatever happens to Iran.
Ali,
You are very simplistic..To switch sides or be friends with old enemies something need to change! Aoun fought SYRIAN intervention. Now he IS with Syrian intervention. CAPISCHE????
Aoun is nothing but wrinkled old prostitute who festers till a dog throws a few pennies his way…
I think you have to realize that Aoun is just a sick person. I mean medically talking. He has an early stage of Alzheimer. Ask anyone (please) who has/had a relative with Alzheimer and they will tell you that Aoun has the same symptoms.
Ohhh Muss and what do you think about when Olmert said that Siniora was a good guy,and that his goverment should stay in all prize???????Do any 14 stupido have the gutts to answer….
Well i was a fierce anti syrian while they where in Lebanon,i even was there on august 7,saw my friends got beaten while your 14 feb leaders where watching and laughing……
Syria was occupiying Lebanon with an Americain blessing,and now it’s switching to put Lebanon under Saudi control….
I’ll stand in the face of Syria if it decides to get back to Lebanon as i’ll stand in the face of any other Arab shit occupations,or any other occupation as a matter of fact…..
And yes Sunnis where and are always responsible of the Lebanese troubles and wars,they don’t even believe in Lebanon as an independant country,they just believe in Arabs and shitty arabism….they faught their fellow lebanese christians to support the flow of palestinians comming to destroy lebanon……
And dont start on me i’m a sunni myself,and I REFUSE THE WAHABI HARIRI SHIT IN LEBANON…..
Let’s be honest here. This anti-Sunni rhetoric started when Aoun allied with Hezbollah to gain his precious “chair”. What used to be FPM is now heavily infiltrated with Hezbollah operatives (nowlebanon.com article)and has become very sectarian – just as Aoun’s recent speeches about “Christian Rights”. The only “right” he cares about is his “right to the Presidency.
He is nothing but a tool used by Hezbo & Syria … and yes, he is a “sick” man. We can only hope this Alzheimer’s (others say it’s Schizophrenia or another type of Psychosis), will advance quickly to the stage of not knowing his own name. None can deny that he is a “cult” figure on the order of Jones & David Koresh and his Aounists are eager for his Kool-Aid. Many are very, very young & excited at the thoughts of “war”. It’s a game to them.
To defend those FPM members who do believe in a secular society and are not anti-anyone .. they have left Aoun & the movement, although they still believe in what they “thought” FPM originally was … a Unity for Lebanon.
I would remind everyone that Gebran Tueni used to be FPM, as were many other prominent figures.
There’s more to Aoun’s evil sectarian demagogy. I know for a fact that his anti-Sunnism is also married with the belief — get this beauty — that they should support Hezbollah’s weapons because they will fight alongside them against the Palestinians that the Sunnis supposedly want to settle in the country.
I invite Ado and others like him to read Hazem Saghieh’s recent article. If that is people like that have enough brain cells to comprehend anything — which doesn’t seem likely.
Saghieh has nailed Aoun’s criminal sectarianism and his anti-Sunnism in a number of excellent articles.
I will also add this from a recent Michael Young column:
A third mistake is that Syria has utterly failed in its Sunni policy. The Sunni community is the major obstacle to any Syrian return. It is extraordinary that Aoun and an embarrassing number of his followers should be so hostile to Sunnis today, when they spent years accusing the community of not being Lebanese enough. The Aounists won’t accept that it was Syrian fear of Rafik Hariri’s (therefore the Sunnis’) anticipated gains in the 2005 elections that precipitated the former prime minister’s assassination; it was mainly Sunni revulsion, locally and regionally, with Hariri’s elimination that pushed the Syrians out of Lebanon; it was Prime Minister Fouad Siniora’s diplomacy that ensured the deployment of the Lebanese Army to South Lebanon after the Israeli onslaught of 2006 – a step that earned him the loathing of Hizbullah; and it is the Sunnis whom the Syrians now need to silence by any means possible, particularly through pressure on Saudi Arabia, before they can contemplate a return to Beirut.
Ado,
You just contradicted yourself dude. You first claim with certainty that all Sunnis are the cause of all evil in Lebanon because they do not believe in an independent Lebanon as they instead believe in all that arabism crap. Then you claim that you are a Sunni yourself and you do not believe in that crap. So I guess you just invalidated your first statement. I would give you a history lesson about the civil war but that would take too many pages. The problem with Aounis in general is that they are still living in the past. All their criticism (perhaps 99% to be accurate) of their opponents goes back to events a decade or two ago that happened either pre Taif (and general amnesty law)or during the Syrian occupation.
Moustapha, are you really asking, or just stirring some controversy?
” How Aoun convinced the FPM supporters not to care about Syria anymore. ”
By simply telling them ” The Syrian army is out of Lebanon, we don’t care about fighting them anymore ”
How baffeling is that ? Do you really need conspiracy theories to understand why lost of Aounists still support him? because that rhetoric is not as crazy as everyone makes it sound :-)
And let me clarify, one might disagree with that position, it might be a completely wrong and short sighted way to think, he might be personally insane, (maybe all of the above are true) but his rhetoric is not as crazy as anyone is trying to make it.
And the Aounists who believe it are not necessarily blind or stupid. Even if lots of them are.
They claim that they simply don’t want to be Syria’s enemies when the Syrian are in Syria because that means they will be fighting them FOR EVER unless someone nukes Syria out of existence, which is unlikely.
They want to be Syria’s enemies when Syria is in Lebanon Lebanon and Sryia’s non enemies while Syria does not invade Lebanon.
And that, I can easily understand, even if I don’t agree with.
Just like I can easilly understand how when Shaheed Hariri had the same position towards Syria (no need to keep fighting them), even after syria had killed Gemayel, Mouawad, thrown ja3ja3 in jail and banned Aoun and Amin gemayel from Lebanon.
Of course that does not imply anything about Aoun’s other follies, like his sectarian / anti sunny sickening stance.
Oh an Mus, I believe the article would be much more intellectually honest without the “Syrian Foreign Minister” reference.
You should hold it against the Aounists what they think about Syria or the Sunnis not what Syria says about them.
Because then their response would be to judge March 14 based on what Olmert says about Sanyoura, and then you’d realize how hollow that argument is… I hope.
This goes to show, if nothing else, how idiotic, moronic and “sheeplike” the Lebanese people as a whole are. We truly do deserve every bit of pain and misery we get.
Unfortunately BV is right.
Over a half of posts 1-13 are idiotic and miss the point.(Does not mean I agree with Mustapha’s point).
Who cares if one sounds like, or is in love with, Israel or Syria you dumbfucks.
What are the sides doing NOW and where are they leading the country are the relevant questions.
ding ding ding! Winner ^^^^
Oh, and by the way, to all you geniuses back there saying “We don’t need to fight Syria anymore, they’re not in lebanon.” I say that:
1. Yes, they still are in Lebanon. Just because you can’t see them and their agents doesn’t meant they aren’t there.
and
2. By the same logic, why do we need to “resistance”? Why do we need to keep fighting Israel? They are not in Lebanon either (by all international standards, as confirmed by the UN). And please spare me the Shebaa Farm argument. Until I see a letter from Syria to the UN, stating that Shebaa is indeed Lebanese, I won’t buy into that excuse.
So….
Depends Josey … there are many who believe that the “opposition” is leading the country right back into the hands of Syria, and I’m one of them. The Aounists don’t believe that because the “Syrian Army left Lebanon” (they ignore all those Syrian troops inside the border) and they think that all the assassinations, bombings and attacks are from:
1. M14
2. Israel
3. USA
It cant’ be Syria because “they left”. Give me a break.
Aoun has effectively switched enemies and is now focusing on the evil Saudi-backed “Wahhabis”. By doing that he pulled off a seemingly impossible feat: He kept the energy of his rebellious supporters but made them no longer care about Syria.
Yep – he did that for sure, and all the new talk from the “anti-Sectarian” general is about “Christian Rights!” and how he is the new “Christian Patriarch”. The anti-Sectarian FPM is drinking the Kool-Aid, and it’s going down smooth. It’s also getting him the support of a few far right wing Christians. ;)
Bad Vibel,
I don’t understand you.
Please read back the points 1 and 2 you made and explain how you can say both at the same time with a straight face.
Are you saying that when a country leaves militarily, they leave agents behind, that’s why we must keep fighting them because of those agents left behind? (point 1) Therefor we should keep fighting Syria and we should keep fighting Israel?
Or are you saying that when a country leaves Lebanon military that’s it, we should not fight them anymore, (point 2) Therefor we should stop fighting Israel and we should stop fighting Syria?
Which one is it? should we fight the country that leaves leaving agents behind OR should we believe they left and stop fighting?
Or do you have a special logic for Syria and a different logic for Israel.
I am genuinely confused by your points 1 and 2 ? you seem convinced by both of them but they seem totally contradictory to me… or am I missing something cause obviously I am not the genius my mom keeps calling me, but I am sure you’ll explain the matter to my simple mind.
TAC,
Let me explain…learn how to read. It is your absurd logic he was explaining…
Has Israel negotiated on March 14 behalf?? Or are you proud to see Aoun “in charge” irrespective on who his masters are?
It is Lebanon we are talking about. Stop diluding yourself with your absurd “logic”. You guys are fucking it up and blaming it on everyone. You are more racist than f’n any people on earth!!
TAC – read it again, and if you still don’t “get” it, then I would have to agree with you about your “simple mind” and your Mom being wrong.
This isn’t rocket science
TAC,
I put a big giant “OR” in between 1 and 2. Two completely DIFFERENT (and opposite) rationales. And ironically BOTH are completely ridiculous ways of thinking. That’s what I was trying to illustrate.
On one hand, the Aounist argument is “Syrians left. So we should stop fighting them”. But these same people don’t seem to apply this same logic to Israel, who left in 2000.
On another hand (different, unrelated argument): These same Aounists/Hezballah guys keep telling us how every assassination is blamed on these foreign agents from Israel and the US. Yet, they refuse to recognize that Syria has an intelligence presence in Lebanon, and supports various terrorist groups in Palestinian camps, and so on.
In BOTH cases, I am illustrating how the Aounist/Hizballah rationale makes ABSOLUTELY ZERO SENSE.
Do you get it now?
Please read this incredible and insightful piece by Nabil Khalifa, it’s quite sobering. He discusses the true intentions of HA and Iran, why HA **could not** name an ‘official’ presidential candidate, and why the Christians are particularly targeted…
http://14march.org/index.php?page=nd&nid=30001
Ace
We agree, that’s what I am saying.
Who is killing downtown?
Who is threatening to shut down the airports and ports?
Who is killing the constitution TODAY?
Who is blocking the removal of Syrian stooges from security agencies TODAY?
TODAY is the key, we all know Hariri and Joumblatt slept with the Syrian before.
Has Syria changed its position vis a vis Leb for Aoun to do the same? Where are the borders and the embassy?
Aoun says he wants them but his silence is deafening.
Aoun looks in to the future. He understands that the grotesque Lebanese “democracy” of 50% to Christians, 50% to the rest, that is supported by the hypocrite US, wont last for long. You can keep injustice only for a limited period of time. For the longer term, justice must prevail.
For the longer time it will be more and more difficult to ignore the Shi’i community, and to try to diminish it’s roll in Leb. politics.
Mr. Aoun sees all this. When all this explodes one day, he wants to be with those he expects to be the victors (the Shi’i community).
From a Christian Lebanese point of view, he is right.
Aoun is the man of tomorrow. The other Maroni leaders are obsolete personas with no vision.
.
So you think that Aoun is just picking the eventual winner in the battle for Lebanon? That winner will be Hezbollah and the Islamic Republic of Lebanon? He hopes for a small place in this new Republic, even at his old age?
OK …. That explains a lot.
Amir in Tel Aviv, very good post.
Shiaa are planning to make their own state and abolish Lebanese multi confessional system. Shiaa state headed by Hizballa will bring joy to the Israeli state. Not only a Shiaa state in Lebanon will kill diversity that contradicts the Jewish state. Israel will make a deal with Tehran to have even more secure and safe border on the northern frontier. I mean the Golan heights type of quite borders under the Alawatie totalitarian regime.
This is the objective alliance between the Hebrew State and Hizballa. This alliance will kill the Soul of Lebanon, symbol of religious freedom and tolerance. So much unlike Israel and Iran two religious fanatic identities in the region.
As for Aoun, he will maybe secure to Lebanese Christians no more rights than what the Armenians have today under the Persian rule in Iran: Bit of media, arts and nice fashion dress obeying the Fatawas rule.
Amir – it’s no secret the thinking of Israel is to foster the rift and rise of Shiism at to counter the Sunnis.
If HA and the Syrians were to gain the upper hand in Lebanon how would this benefit you guys? Heck, even Livni proclaimed she’s set on removing the terrorists regime in Syria from the axis-of-evil, makes one wonder really. That’s off course makes perfect sense if Israel is totally dis-genuine about any peace with Lebanon. If Israeli had any shred of faith in true peace it would’ve handed the Shabaa farms to the UN, as proposed by Saniora… but obviously Syria, Iran, Israel and HA are all in bed to see Shiism dominates in Lebanon…
Wild guess on my part, but it is that both Iran & Israel would be totally shocked to find out the conspiracy theorists have them as “secret allies”. You gotta love the internet.
Ace, did you ever hear of Iran-contra gate? if not you might want to read up about it. It was before the days of the internet and there you had the radical Khomeani doing secret dealings with the “evil” Zionist state!!!
Amir in Tel Aviv:
Sectarianism is found in the histories of empires and states that failed or continue to fail because bigotry (by any name) habitually oppresses other groups both within and beyond borders. On other continents, secular states have progressed, leaving sectarian states behind.
Governments are known by their laws. Where laws are bigoted, it may be the case that even equitable representation related to the demographics of a state will not prevent some within those populations from digging a hole to hell. For, peaceful coexistence requires tolerance.
Jay:
“…shreds of faith…” have all too often been overwhelmed by shrapnel.
Episode # 1
HEEYYY Mr. MUSTAPHA !!!!!!!!!
Thank you very much for this post,because what you saying is what I been saying for a while,is “The Saudi Consperacy”,the damm WAHHABIS think that because they put some money in Lebano’s economy they can controled.They want to create a “KINGDOM” with all the M14 players(Emirs) with Mr. Fag Hariri as the KING (not a king with the name but kinda of head of the mafia type, you know).And who’s gonna pay the price at the end? Guess home boy…Not the Shhites,not the sunnis but us the Chistians.They can kiss my dirty,steenky Lebanese ASS,that will never happen.why? very simple..because the leader of the mayority of the Chistians( 73% by last poll 2 mounths ago)General “AOUN” allied himself with one of the most powerfull force in the Midle East: Hezbollah.They are the insurance of our existance in Lebanon.They are not Wahhabis, sure they follow Iranian Doctrin, but they are not Iranians,They are Lebanese,and they have enough credentials,prove and history since 1982 to back it up.
Mr.Ado (post # 5) ? Am sorry to agree with you because around 20 % of sunnis are with the General.And yes, you are right,THE SUNNIS are always responsible for Lebanon’s troubles with their Arab identity pride and Arabism shiit.Same as IRAQ, remember? when they opposed the new constitution because they called IRAQ: “Islamic Republic Of Iraq” and they wanted to be called “Arab Republic of Iraq”,remember?They dont even support Islam.They back the Saudis and Wahhabies more than their own fate and Lebanese Identity.We Christians “CANT” trust the sunnis not before,not today not tomorrow.They never give us our rights when they are in power,read History.We just can live together under a Unity Goverment that safeguard the rights of the mayority and the minority.Why they dont ally themself with us and the shiites? why? We are the mayority.They just wanted their way,the Saudis and Wahhabies way.Well like we say here in the USA..” SIT ON IT “..hehehehe
Episode # 2
The Shiites State ?????Hezbollah rulling Lebanon? Hezbollah,Israel,Iran and USA togethers? Allies? Are you people out of your phatetic mind ????? The 2006 war ? What was it? Love in between them? JESUS Crist give me a brake !!!!! who do u people think that speared us from another civil war since 2005? Who?yes my friend Hezbollah.They are in control and they keeping the country safe from civil war till today.This apply to Amir(post # 25)for how long Siniora Goverment can Ignore the shiia Community,he still in power like nothing happened when the five ministers gived him their resignation.And he’s acting like they dont count(Sunni-Wahhabi mentality).Who’s controling them? who is holding them back ?Hezbollah is.Believe me people if the shiia get unleach that is gonna be the end of the M14,Cedar,some christian and every Sunni supporter of the Saudi_Wahhabi.So relax.For us the Christians, we are safe with Hezbollah or Shiites,always been,read history.The General is a clean man and very smart,looking up to protect the rights of the Chistians in Lebanon,as simple as that.Mr. Fag Hariri took him to France to try to buy him, but he forgot that The General is a True Chistian and a true Lebanese that he doesnt sell himself like a protitute like the M14 leaders.Long Live General “AOUN”.God Bless Him. Amen
OOPPPPPSSSSS…Sorry guys :
I FORGOT TO CALL YOU ” LOOOSERS ” hehehe
This is how General Aoun deceived and mislead the Christian voters;
Excerpt from General Aoun’s FPM Party Parliamentary 2005 electoral platform, “Annex number one, Hezbollah’s issue”:
“UN Resolution 1559 and the ‘Taef Accord’ both stipulate that all militias (in Lebanon) must be disarmed. This matter raises the paradox of Hezbollah’s military existence. Regardless of different opinions on Hezbollah’s ideological choices and its relations with Syria, that is suspicious in its intentions towards Lebanon, Hezbollah’s military activities were seen in the UN Resolutions frame as resistance acts against occupation until the day Israel withdraw from Lebanon’s southern region (May 2000). After the Israeli withdrawal, legitimacy for Hezbollah’ military operations dissipated. Meanwhile, since then, it created a crisis on national and international levels. This status put Lebanon in a confrontation with the international law, while at the same time exerted a threat to the national unity as it indicates that one group Monopolizes Lebanon’s national decision making process.”
Results: 21 MP’s in parliment!!!!!!
Ace and Bad Vibel,
Please both of you read BV post number 17 and number 22 again. (Danny, you don’t have to bother)
In 17 BV says 1 AND 2 , in 22 he replies that he put a big giant 1 OR 2.
No one of you bothered to read the actual comments and say “oops sorry it was a typo” BV said “and” when he meant “or” which changed the whole meaning of the argument, problem solved.
At least BV was not condescending in his reply and did not accuse me of abiding to the Aoun/Hizballah rationale, Ace asks me to read it again, I wonder if he did that himself?
As for Danny, well, I can’t bother respond. Maybe he and Fadi USA can have a shouting contest together, I wonder if any of them realizes how alike they both are.
In all cases, I suppose that right here is half of our problem, it is just a shouting match where no one tries to listen or understand the other side’s point of view, because everyone knows they are always right. Good for you guys, keep it up.
hehehehehe…Sign me in for the Shouting contest.I will shout his ASS and any M14 loser with my eyes close and win…hehehe
TAC –
OK, I re-read it all (including your “confusion”). BV’s a good guy, and he took the effort to try and explain what he meant. Did you care? Nope. You have no interest in content, only in picking an argument.
HA is a great resistance – only problem is, they are fighting an occupation that bugged out and no longer exists. Syria bugged out also but in the minds of HA & Aounists – gone is gone, no worries. Same thing with the prisoners. 3-4 in Israel, let’s start a war and get them back! 100’s in Syria – who cares?
It’s a double standard – you may need to look that up.
Ace, really what is your problem with what I am saying?
So BV is a good guy because he explains what he means after making a typing mistake, and I am a bad guy because when something did not make sense to me I asked for an explanation ? and after BV explained his point correcting his mistake I said “problem solved” and I also commended him for not being “condescending in his reply”?
Which part of my comments showed you I did not care about the correction or the content?
Besides, and that’s the kicker, I get the feeling you are trying to convince me of something regarding HA’s resistance to Israel in your last comment.
What do you know of my position towards them? Which part of any of my comments showed that I support (or not) HA’s resistance of Israel today or previously? Or gave you a hint that I don’t see the double standard in their behavior?
I never mentioned my position on this subject in all the comments in this thread and yet you seem to presume to know it? Where did you read about it? In my mind or in my comments?
Can you answer any of these questions by pointing at what I say instead of reading my mind?
WE NEED SYRIA!!!
From a simple economic viewpoint, we need good relations with Syria to grow our economy. (route to imports and exports)
It is in Syria’s interests to try to influence Lebanese politics.
It is in Lebanon’s interests to be independent while maintaining good relations with Syria.
M14 and especially Jumblatt want nothing but to destroy any relationship with Syria. This is simply not viable.
For me, Aoun is being diplomatic. He is not bowing to anybody, especially not the Syrians but he is not (like M14) actively pursuing a change in regime in Damascus either!!
From a pure economic perspective, what makes more sense?
Why should Lebanon seek to dominate Syria? All we need is friendly, equal to equal, neighbourly relations.
Like the USA and Canada, one side will always try to dominate the other side. The Canadian economy has flourished because they have been able to maintain good relations throughout it all.
Yeah. I realize now I wrote “and” instead of “or”. I think my point eventually got across though. No point arguing about it now, guys :)
The point is, both sides are extremely hypocritical and full of double standards. Replace the word “Syria” for the word “Israel” in any demagoguery from their side and it’s the exact same meaningless rhetoric that lacks any consistency, and is filled with double standards.
It’s time Lebanon grew up a bit. The level of discourse I see on this blog, as well as on in our national media is at the same level as infantile bickering. And it seems to be endemic. It’s not just the sheep and populace at large, but also our so-called leaders. They’re level of discourse is just as retarded and moronic as the “shouting matches” I’m seeing on this blog. The nation as a whole needs to grow up. Or else, we simply don’t deserve a nation of our own. By all standards, we’re equivalent to an immature 10-year old, claiming to want to live on his own and be self-sufficient, but still acting like a 10-year old. There’s a reason 10-year olds have legal guardians, you know? Because society deems them incapable of acting like adults. So you have to realize that Lebanon is the 10-year old. And if we don’t show the world that we are mature, and capable of governing ourselves, then we deserve to be given a “guardian” (France, Syria, or whoever else).
Sadly, I don’t see things changing anytime soon. Not as long as the national IQ remains in the doldrums.
Yeah. I realize now I wrote “and” instead of “or”. I think my point eventually got across though. No point arguing about it now, guys :) It’s all about the “argument” BV, you know that. The point was clear the first time but thank the Lord you correct the and/or thingy. Good points – Lebanon is like a school yard fight with each little school yard bully group wanting ownership of the ball. Fisk said that Lebanon can only function under a “boot” – he’s probably right.
TAC – you are right. We should have asked more to make sure what it was you were really saying. This was the phrase that caused my “assumptions”. My perception was that you did not think there are any Syrian agents in Lebanon, and I should have asked you that very question.
Which one is it? should we fight the country that leaves leaving agents behind OR should we believe they left and stop fighting?
Or do you have a special logic for Syria and a different logic for Israel.
Logic is certainly the same for both – it is the “perception” of some that is different – but, of course, that’s what BV was saying.
I don’t want to fight anyone, I just want to live in peace. Sorry about the “double standard” thingy – it’s clear you understand what it is.
Funny how this whole thread got diverted from how the Aounist’s used to think Syria was the “enemy”, and now they think the ” real enemy” is the Sunni – and no problemo’s with dear sister Syria. Funny
sami,point well taken BUT, the last time we did this Syria ruled us and will do it again. Don’t kid yourself, I guess you don’t remember all the portraits of Assad at the airport and throughout the country,I guess you don’t recall all the jailed lebanese beaten and tortured at the hands of our kind and lovely partners. This is where aoun has it wrong. Who should I be more fearful of Sunnis or syrians. He has manufactured this false sense of fear to further his own agenda. Most can see through it. Only roughly 20 percent Maronites follow him,only his hardcore supporters. Other former supporters of aoun like myself are now vapor by his own doing.
hehehehe…. Joseph..
Where did you get the 20 % of the Maronites follow General Aoun only? Did you get it from your crack head loser head?????? And yes be more Scare of the sunnis than the Syrians because with the Sunnis the existance of the Christians in Lebanon is in grate dangerous(thas only if you a Christian of course).Long Live General “AOUN” . God Bless Him. Amen
Fadi, you must be kidding right or do you have a good case of amnesia, or is it possible you don’t live in Lebanon?
I have cousins who still to this day sit in Syrian prisons for no good reason other than speaking out against the Syrian occupation. Do you think I’ll ever see their smiling faces again? I’ve had two girl cousins raped and one murdered. Why do you think I was such an big Aounist at one time. Because he believe in ridding Lebanon of these murderous thugs and fought with such tenacity and passion. And now he expects me to flip-flop because of his own political ambitions. I don’t think so.
Anyway, Two-thirds of Maronites voted for Gemayel during the Metn Elections and i’m sure you know this already. Since then, estimated support of Aoun has fallen even more. It is a real shame, believe me, i used to loved the guy and at one time thought he was the only honest broker left in Lebanon.
So who do I fear? believe me, i don’t even flinch, it’s the Syrians along with HA for obvious reasons, not conspiracy theorist, far fetched imagined reasons. Are the Sunni perfect, do I fear the wahhabist, yes i do, but my fear is way down comparatively.
And don’t even get me started thinking about MPs going awol….
To all those who fear the Sunni, ask yourself:
1) who is growing demographically in a fast way that will change the face of Lebanon? Not Sunnis.
2) Who is buying lands in Jbeil and the South to install military basis and colonies of inhabitants. Not Sunnis.
3) Who hold arms and refuse the rule of law and pretend that they’re always victims and right. Not Sunnis.
4) Who killed Pierre and Bashir Gemail. Not Sunnis.
5) And if by any chance you are afraid of Khaleigi wealthy Arabs buying villas in Lebanon. These people could easily go to any top notch destination. From Switzerland to Cayman Islands etc.
6) If you prefer rather Katiosha gifts that will destroy Lebanon, Sunnis are not responsible.
Sad to see that amount of hatred against Lebanese Sunni among the Aounite!
sam,
“Sad to see that amount of hatred against Lebanese Sunni among the Aounite! ”
Of course this statement of yours is 100% correct.
But can I add that it is also as sad to see the amount of hatred towards shiaa among the non Aounite?
Would I be way off if I sensed such hatred in your post (specifically Q 1,2)?
Do you agree that hatred is also a sad thing or do you think it is ok and justified?
Sam, let’s face it, the ill feelings towards the shiaa is justified to some extent. A self inflicting war crippling the economy and tarnishing the image of Lebanese worldwide, then taking us to the brink of civil war shortly after, yes I’d say we have valid reasons to dislike them.
Also, the Aounist despised the Shiaa until their agreement. Believe me, i was one of them and there was nothing we hated more than Nassy and his smoke and mirrors resistance along with his thievery of utilities.
Sorry, above post meant for TAC not Sam.
Cheers
Sam, let’s face it, the ill feelings towards the shiaa is justified to some extent.
Sorry Joseph …. it’s never “justified”. Why? just because most Shia are Hezbollah? What about the Shia who are not HA? What about the Shia who have no choice? There are many of them. NGO studies show that about 30% of the Shia feel trapped by HA and the Shia are the second largest group trying to get out of Lebanon.
Hezbollah is not a Lebanese party. They are an Iranian funded party with an extremist ideology. It so happens that HA is also a Shia group …. that no reason to assume all Shia are Hezbollah ….. just as there is no reason to assume all Sunni are Qaeda.
The Aounists never “despised” the Shia and if you think so, then you have no concept of what FPM used to be. Granted, they are now firmly anti-Sunni but that is due to politics and to Hezbollah infiltration and influence. In the old days … FPM was totally non-sectarian but the new mantra is that “The ends justify the means” and if the ends can assure Aoun of the chair, then “anti-Sunni” means are justified.
Hatred is never justified, that’s why I am opposed to HA policy:
If you do not obey HA policy, Imad Moughanié will prepare you a Gift Bomb! That’s pure hatred and horrible!
Thank you Joseph for the explanation.
fadi, very cruel indeed. Its tragic and i hope to God you never experience what me and my family went through. Anyway, talk about theft, seems GMA got off with some loot and flew the coup to france. We all knew that and im certain you knew that as well. There are no angels in war nor politics so lets take aoun off the white horse and stop the nonsense. I have a question for you, if Syria’s so innocent why did we push so hard for the Syrian accountability act just a few short years ago?