Comments on: Why The Lebanese should read Federalist #10 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/ Blogging Lebanese politics, business and society since 2005 Wed, 23 May 2012 14:09:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: JAS http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/#comment-8555 JAS Wed, 21 Nov 2007 19:27:41 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/#comment-8555 Realpolitik: Name a sovereign state without borders. Read Mexican laws related to immigrants, then read existing related American laws. Consider this: In a sovereign state rich in natural resources about 10% of the 140,000,000 Mexican population remains illiterate, can’t read. Altogether, there are many serious failures of the Mexican government. One side of that border has been a democracy for more than 225 years; the other side of the border had a long series of dictatorial regimes and even as a democracy Mexico remains riddled with corruption. The population flow is from south to north and in recent years literally ten or more millions of illegal entries have crossed that border without any immigrant documentation. In fact, these are violating our laws and sovereignty; the Mexican government actually encourages those activities all the while placing the burdens of education, health, and welfare of their citizens on our citizens. Yet, lock them up and load illegal immigrants on return transportation, as well as fining the illegal immigrants and other governments for those transgressions, are the policies of the Mexican government. What fees shall we assess for millions of their illegal immigrants? Get real. Realpolitik:

Name a sovereign state without borders. Read Mexican laws related to immigrants, then read existing related American laws. Consider this: In a sovereign state rich in natural resources about 10% of the 140,000,000 Mexican population remains illiterate, can’t read. Altogether, there are many serious failures of the Mexican government. One side of that border has been a democracy for more than 225 years; the other side of the border had a long series of dictatorial regimes and even as a democracy Mexico remains riddled with corruption. The population flow is from south to north and in recent years literally ten or more millions of illegal entries have crossed that border without any immigrant documentation. In fact, these are violating our laws and sovereignty; the Mexican government actually encourages those activities all the while placing the burdens of education, health, and welfare of their citizens on our citizens. Yet, lock them up and load illegal immigrants on return transportation, as well as fining the illegal immigrants and other governments for those transgressions, are the policies of the Mexican government. What fees shall we assess for millions of their illegal immigrants?

Get real.

]]> By: Abu Hatem ??? ???? » Blog Archive » The Lebanese should read Federalist #10 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/#comment-8554 Abu Hatem ??? ???? » Blog Archive » The Lebanese should read Federalist #10 Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:09:06 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/#comment-8554 [...] A guest piece for TheBeirutSpring Blog. [...] [...] A guest piece for TheBeirutSpring Blog. [...]

]]> By: realpolitik http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/#comment-8553 realpolitik Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:35:11 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/#comment-8553 adding to GK, the Madison system, assumes that all sides have, at least, some degree of good will and not our usual, time honored, style of "my way or the highway". Also, I really don't see the americans "compromising" on say... the ranchers in Texas got lock and loaded and start a war against the "Mexican Entity" adding to GK, the Madison system, assumes that all sides have, at least, some degree of good will and not our usual, time honored, style of “my way or the highway”.
Also, I really don’t see the americans “compromising” on say… the ranchers in Texas got lock and loaded and start a war against the “Mexican Entity”

]]> By: Mustapha http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/#comment-8552 Mustapha Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:12:03 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/#comment-8552 Ghassan, Glad you're no longer "discriminated against" ;) Ghassan,
Glad you’re no longer “discriminated against” ;)

]]> By: ghassan karam http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/#comment-8551 ghassan karam Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:02:23 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/#comment-8551 Dare I suggest that the premise of your argument does not hold in this case. Compromise is a honorable tradition, actually politics has often been defined as the "art of compromise". Compromise, however, is not to be confused with appeasement which is what is being asked of the Lebanese to do. That must be rejected at any cost. Dare I suggest that the premise of your argument does not hold in this case. Compromise is a honorable tradition, actually politics has often been defined as the “art of compromise”. Compromise, however, is not to be confused with appeasement which is what is being asked of the Lebanese to do. That must be rejected at any cost.

]]> By: Omar http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/#comment-8550 Omar Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:59:32 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/#comment-8550 Actually, the whole thing about the President vetoing a bill, as well as state and local governments passing contradicting legislation to the Congress is all about compromise. The Madisonian system was made to give every significant minority, as well as every branch of government, significant leverage to stifle legislation. If a Congress has less than a 2/3rds majority they will have to change a bill before passing it to compromise with a co-equal branch (case-in-point: SCHIP). Then there are the courts making policy from the bench (judicial review) but only in reacting to the Constitutionality of a policy - which often leads Congress and the President to adjusting policy attempting a compromise. Also, this applies in the federal government versus the states. Look up the concept of "antagonistic federalism," concerning when the federal government has to compromise with states in terms of policy. It is very interesting to see how the whole process works out... Actually, the whole thing about the President vetoing a bill, as well as state and local governments passing contradicting legislation to the Congress is all about compromise. The Madisonian system was made to give every significant minority, as well as every branch of government, significant leverage to stifle legislation. If a Congress has less than a 2/3rds majority they will have to change a bill before passing it to compromise with a co-equal branch (case-in-point: SCHIP). Then there are the courts making policy from the bench (judicial review) but only in reacting to the Constitutionality of a policy – which often leads Congress and the President to adjusting policy attempting a compromise.

Also, this applies in the federal government versus the states. Look up the concept of “antagonistic federalism,” concerning when the federal government has to compromise with states in terms of policy.

It is very interesting to see how the whole process works out…

]]> By: GK http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/#comment-8549 GK Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:30:47 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/#comment-8549 1. The compromise is the Congress. When the Senate and te House pass 2 almost similar Bills, they confer (get into a conference) to finalize the bills by compromising! But the President in the While House has a veto power and can sign it (it becomes a law) or veto it (send it back to the Congress!) Here there is no compromise!! 2. You are right Jay, we have in Lebanon people who just follow their z3eem regardless if he is right or wrong! The people don't know even where they stand on issues! 1. The compromise is the Congress. When the Senate and te House pass 2 almost similar Bills, they confer (get into a conference) to finalize the bills by compromising! But the President in the While House has a veto power and can sign it (it becomes a law) or veto it (send it back to the Congress!) Here there is no compromise!!
2. You are right Jay, we have in Lebanon people who just follow their z3eem regardless if he is right or wrong! The people don’t know even where they stand on issues!

]]> By: JoseyWales http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/#comment-8548 JoseyWales Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:17:15 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/#comment-8548 The Lebs should read many things Steve. I am afraid it's their understanding that is, and has been, lacking. The Lebs should read many things Steve.

I am afraid it’s their understanding that is, and has been, lacking.

]]> By: Leb Christian http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/#comment-8547 Leb Christian Tue, 20 Nov 2007 17:36:12 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/#comment-8547 This phrase is key : "Obviously, compromise is impossible for every possible opinion, and the weakest and least supported opinions will have less political leverage and thus often not be included." The author forgot to mention that opinions which threaten the very existence and the very nature of the country are never included in any sort of compromises. This is the state we are in Lebanon. It's either the celebration of death, armageddon and perpetual war, or the prospects of democracy and economic development with all its flaws. The majority in Lebanon are for the second choice, including the confused Aounists. This phrase is key : “Obviously, compromise is impossible for every possible opinion, and the weakest and least supported opinions will have less political leverage and thus often not be included.”

The author forgot to mention that opinions which threaten the very existence and the very nature of the country are never included in any sort of compromises.

This is the state we are in Lebanon. It’s either the celebration of death, armageddon and perpetual war, or the prospects of democracy and economic development with all its flaws.

The majority in Lebanon are for the second choice, including the confused Aounists.

]]> By: Jay http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/#comment-8546 Jay Tue, 20 Nov 2007 17:33:03 +0000 http://beirutspring.com/blog/2007/11/20/the-lebanese-should-read-federalist-10/#comment-8546 Great piece. Though sadly it would be hard to apply in Lebanon given that one zealous side, armed and brainwashed with some backward theology, unwilling to rationally and reasonably settle for anything less than total control. Great piece. Though sadly it would be hard to apply in Lebanon given that one zealous side, armed and brainwashed with some backward theology, unwilling to rationally and reasonably settle for anything less than total control.

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