I never meant it in any way that M8 are inferior or less equal.

All Lebanese are equal. Every single blood of any Lebanese is sacred to me.

M8 and M14 are not fighting for the same cause. they are not seeking the same goals. M14 is seeking independent sovereign Lebanon. M8 wants Lebanon part of Iranian/Syrian alliance at any cost. Even if the cost would be the destruction of Lebanon. M8 wants to bring back the Syrian influence at the same level before 2005 at any cost.

M8 will try to show their supporters that it is constitutional what they are doing or it is for sake of reform that this has to be done.

But if you look for the main reason of all: the Hariri tribunal….

Hizbo lost a huge part of the Lebanese population when, after the Hariri assassination, they went to downtown Beirut carrying the flag of the only suspect in that murder!!!! with a “Thank you” note on it.

As I said, we are not fighting for the same reason.

Lebanese Patriot

Where in this sentence do you see the word news-source? I said independent blogs. For me, ordinary people who happen to be living at the time in the place make a better information source than any other news source.

Also, it is very unfair to say that M8 people are not equal. I’m sure Michel Aoun was equal when he attacked the Syrians and Hezbollah was equal when they attacked Syria/Israel – depending on what you believe. What makes them less equal now. Or less equal from the start.

Also if you notice, a short time after Hezbollah hostility to Syria and its allies in Lebanon ceased, it transformed into a terrorist group in the US. You, as a Lebanese person, should be offended when anyone tries cursing your fellow compatriots. At least think of the brave martyrs who gave their blood and souls for a pure and rightful cause – forget the political leaders and the divine victory guy.

Thank You

You started in insulting me by saying that:

“Were you dead during 2005/06? Did you vanish off the face of the planet?”

During the worst war that happened on our beloved country, you are accusing me of not being there? Come on man! During the worst assassination that happened in Lebanon, you are accusing me of not being there! (I am not saying that Hariri is more important than any other Lebanese, but I am saying that the assassination for Mr. Hariri has shaken the whole region.)

Let’s be clear about one thing in here. I do not read M8 publications. I do read international publications and M14 publications. I am not going to waste my time in M8 propaganda. (That does not mean that M14 publications do not have propaganda… But I like that type of propaganda)

You are saying that Israel assassinated and kidnapped Hamas members and leaders. I do not disagree with you. That was done to its own benefit. That does not mean it is not a crime. That is not the situation in Lebanon. Ex: if Mr. “Divine Victory” is assassinated, people will point to Israel. That is the normal reaction that people have. But I doubt that Syria will allow any body to be assassinated in Lebanon other than on their own hands (trade mark!)

But, if you look at Lebanese situation, all f the assassinated, since Mr. Hariri ‘s assassination, were towards anti Syrians leaders. All of the facts point toward Mr. Bashar and his gangs in Lebanon. And yet, we hear from the “opposition” and their smart followers that we have to be open-minded and we have to look at things from all the angles! We have to have the big image that just M8 leaders and followers have and none of the M14 leaders and followers has. That is really sickining! If mighty Bashar himself hears you saying that we have to look at the whole picture and not point to Syria, he will be laughing (not on Television!- but you never know).

Mr. Lover, please note that all of the actions of M14 are constitutional. However, all of the actions/plans of the “M8” are NOT constitutional. They are not equal. For that reason, I cannot look at them at the same level. Should you want me to elaborate on that, I will be more than happy to do so.

And by the way Mr Lover, bloggers are not news sources.

Lebanese Patriot

I also failed to mention that I gather my information from independent sources, and visit independent as well as innocent blogs.

“For those of you that haven’t heard yet, Lebanon’s Prime Minister just resigned and dissolved his cabinent. The demonstration earlier today was tense…press estimates are around 50,000″

This was from a blogger called andy, an American citizen studying at AUB, and happened to be in the country (ofcourse) at the time of the Cedar Revolution – and decided to record the events on his blog.

It is a spectacular timeline of the events that occurred during the period of February and April 2005 – free from political bigortry and censorship due to political affiliation.

http://andybeirutblog.blogspot.com/2005_02_01_archive.html

Sorry, I seriously thought beirutsprings was an pro-M14 site. I probably visit more pro-M14 sites and news sources than pro-M8 and moreso than you.

Michaeltotten.com, yalibnan.com, alistiklal05.com, beirutsprings.com, beirutbeltway.com, Sky and so on. I don’t need to justify myself. The very fact i’m here on this site and participating by having this very convo with you is enough evidence. You don’t need to insult me. There is always a way to ask me politely, because I sure don’t remember insulting you.

My whole point in the latest post dedicated to you was to prove what you said was wrong. I don’t care what you make of the facts that happened (mistakes, stupidness and other opinions), I was merely pointing out the facts, the same facts and truth you denied in your previous post. No more no less.

“Do you think that Israel wants to kill every single anti Syrian in Lebanon?”

Well they seem so god damn keen on kidnapping half og Hamas’s parliamentarian (freely and democratically elected) as well as most of the cabinet and the house speaker – and numerously tried to assasinate political leaders (and at times succeeded).

I’m starting to think you must’ve fell in some kind of devestating coma and missed a whole chunk of history. I do urge you to catch up.

I was around during 2005/2006. I was enjoying the “Divine Victory”. I tried to use Google Earth to see Hizbo in Tel Aviv. But I think the resolution was not that clear. So, I could not see them over there.

You mentioned 50,000 ppl demonstrated and the PM resigned. Good for him (that Syrian bastard). From where did you get the figure 50,000? Was it from Al-Manar or Al-Akhbar????

Yes I remember the pact that Michel Aoun was rejected from. Is it because he just wanted to be the boss? And it will be just him and no one else. Don’t open the issue of Michel Aoun in here. He is the most messed up person Lebanon saw in the history of Lebanon.

I never missed any pact. But you know things sometimes change. In any country, political alliance can happen for election purposes. And then they may change with time. That DOES NOT MEANS that M14 are traitors!!!!

At the time of compromises, M14 did some mistakes. First by allow that Syrian mailbox to be the speaker and by allowing that dog to be in the presidential palace.

The Pro-Syrians did not give up any powers. The powers were taken from them. You remember Bashar’s smartest move (assassination of Mr. HARIRI).

The opposition mobilized 1.5 millions “Lebanese” according to CNN! Come on man. Give me a break. Even Al Manar said 1.0 million.

Saniora’s Government is trying to make things happen. We have some resigned ministers that were trying to blackmail the government to make their way or no way. Therefore they resigned. The government is affected by many factors some of which are the Iranian militia and the Syrian traitors.

For you own records, the tribunal was not done because of M8 is trying to be nice. It is done the wrong way, because M8, Syrian/Iranian traitors, did try every single trick they can do to not let it pass.

And with respect to the presidency and the new government, M14 is saying that we agree on a political program and then presidency and then a government that will obey the agreed political program. Otherwise, M14 will exercise their right by electing a president themselves as the majority in the parliament, which is the definition of democracy.

You mentioned that M14 is using the assassination of its members for political gain. What in the hell is that messed up logic that you are talking about?

Mr. Al Absi who was in a Syrian prison (Syria!) created Fateh AL Islam. And then magically released and then magically transferred to Ahmad Jibril’s camp (Syrian Camp) and then Soheiya (another Syrian training camp). And then he did what he did (Syrian plan).

Mr. Lover, please try to read some other newspapers other than Al-Manar, Al-Akhbar, and for sure the infamous Tayyar, so you can still have a minimum logic in your head before it is too late.

Since Mr. Hariri’s assassination, every single assassination is against an ANTI SYRIAN. Does this point somewhere? Do you think that Israel wants to kill every single anti Syrian in Lebanon?

Lebanese Patriot

Were you dead during 2005/06? Did you vanish off the face of the planet?

The Po-Syrians were in power when the Cedar Revolution started. Right? Then what happened? 50,000 people were demonstrating outside the Serail between February 27 and March 3. The PM resigned and government dissolved.

Then there were the M8 and M14 pact (remember, the one Michel 3oun was rejected in?), this was all a time of concessions, the ‘National Reconciliation’, all the pacts between the Christians and the Sunnis and Shias – or did you miss it all?

Ofcourse also the political and electoral compromise made throughout the elections. The compromise of a coalition government being formed. The compromise of electing Nabih Berri as speaker.

The Pro-Syrians gave up all power (except for Presidency because Emile Lahoud was too stuburn) and almost chose to come out weaker through almost controlled elections (due to the concessions – in some areas M8 candidates did not run for elections and vice versa).

Now look at the current political situation. The opposition mobilises roughly 1.5million Lebanese (not my figures – army, CNN, dailystar etc) into Riyadh Solh, Martyr Square and other public spaces for two weeks. The government is still in place. Every single initiative is dropped. For a year and a half, the government has not made a single effort to fix this problem. I place the fault on the government because – well – they are the GOVERNMENT. The responsibility for a set of political figures being elected comes with the responsibility of guaranteeing my countries common welfare etc. They are thr rulers. They call the shots.

They promised – tribunal for political settlement through national unity government. The tribunal was forced through and still – political impasse continues. Now they say President and then National Unity cabinet and reconciliation – anyone want to make a bet on whether the National Unity cabinet being created?

Annonymous:

Me, personally, and certainly not ALL members of the opposition are saying these people are killing each other. 3oun is going crazy I don’t know why. But so is Ahmed FatFat and alot of M14 guys. Both are using the killings – sadly – for personal political gains and by trying to use them as a weapon to weaken the ‘other side’.

What most opposition people are saying and what especially I believe is that it could be anyone. The Saudis, the Palestinians, the Syrians, Americans, Iranians, Israelis, Libyans, Iraqis, French or any other opportunists and certainly any other militia. Maybe those Islamist/Al-Qaida groups promising to make Lebanon a hell-pit. This might be their way of doing it. And Islamists have infiltrated the Lebanese – as shown by Fath Al-Islam’s recruit rates. Nearly 80% of Fath Al-Islam was Lebanese. Most of the rest Saudis.

Do you see my point now? It could be anyone taking advantage of the situation to fuel bitterness between Lebanese and cause a rift or civil war. It could and might well be some kind of Extremist Shia militia in Lebanon since everyone being killed is Christian and Sunni (even though there are some Shi’as part of M14 never targetted yet).

To point fingers and make conspiracy theories is wrong. 3oun is wrong and M14 is wrong and anyone else who blames instead of calls for a thorough investigation is wrong. The blame-game makes the true murderers escape with the crime because all the media attention is centred on that particular convict (i.e. Syria).

Only yesterday they captured that Israeli guy in Lebanon – his photo and his friends gun next to a murder scene. His friend also happens to be a Social Security guy (I think a policeman – I don’t understand Arabic Jargon). If he was or was not a spy doesn’t matter. But it shows how easy it is for any foreigner to infiltrate the security institutions in this country, carry out a crime and maybe get away with it. If this guy turns out to be a curious Israeli citizen who wants to see Lebanon, then it’s a bigger embaressment. If a civilian infiltrated the security establishment, imagine what a country is capable of doing.

This is my argument. To find out the truth, you don’t blame until you uncovered the game.