gemayyel has no chance of wining, anoun is the strongest Christian in Lebanon , this is why gemayyel and others are bringing up the memories of war in a desperate way to stop the unstoppable.

Gemayyel’s recent language is only pushing more people to anoun Mark my Words

As if Lebanese ever needed help!
If there were only 2 brothers from the same mother left in Lebanon, they would have different opinions.

Honor? Lebanese politicians?

?????

Anon,

Don’t you know all of Lebanon’s problems come from outsiders?

Mus,

Code of honor? Are you kidding? Ever seen a Metn election up-close and in action? The word honor does not come to mind …

I don’t see why there should be any question of whether the elections should be held. What a typically Lebanese view of things! OF COURSE, elections should be held. That is what the constitution dictates. And we need to start learning that the rules and laws are there for a reason and that we have to play by them rules. It never ceases to astound me that we seem to have ZERO grasp on the very premise of Democracy.

I keep reading stories about “mediation attempts” regarding the Metn election, or trying to come up with a “consensus candidate”. What kind of bullshit is that? It is the PEOPLE who have to choose who represents them and whether they subscribe to M14 or to the FPM view of Lebanon (no matter how faulty this or that view might be).

A consensus candidate means the people don’t choose. It means “the politicians” have chosen someone for us. First off, that is not democracy. Second, when will we learn that as long as we keep giving these leaders free passes (no matter the excuse, assassination or not), we have no way of holding anyone accountable.

I made this same argument on another blog, and I argued that for all its ills, I am glad that the Palestinians got to vote Hamas, and then see what Hamas really means (in Gaza). THAT is how you learn. You make choices, and then you have to learn with consequences. When the people are not given choices (as in a consensus candidate), they won’t learn what democracy really means, they won’t learn how to hold their leaders accountable, and we’ll continue being stuck with this ridiculously infantile notion of “no winner no loser” which GUARANTEES no accountability anywhere.

One picture not enough or one picture too many? Is that the Lebanese version of pluralism?

Bad Vilbel, I can’t agree more! The patriarche have to cut the crap and let democracy prevail, not only for these elections but to all elections, president house and deputies. enough mediations and consensus candidats. I hoped they learned the lesson with the election of nabih berry who democraticaly speaking should not have been appointed, now they are going for the same mistake.

Wow, these elections are soooo exciting. I can’t decide who to vote for.
A criminal supported by a criminal butcher, or the criminal brother of a mass murderer. Hey I know! Let’s vote for the dead criminal.
Since he’s dead (although some insist he’s still alive along with Elvis), he’s now a saint!
What a joke. What does it matter who wins. Same shit, different package.

YY,

It matters if you want it to matter. My very point above was that the very REASON we get “the same old shit” is because we allow these shits to dictate their consensus candidates, and their political mediations on us.

In the end, either you want Democracy and you want it to function properly (warts and all, and yes, there are warts!) or you want to follow around like sheep, have other tell you who your leaders are, and then complain like a whiney bitch that “it’s the same old shit”…

Here’s an idea: Take matters in your own hands and stop whining!

Bad Vibe you’re right.
I’m not going to complain anymore. I’m going to take matters into my own hands and go out and start my own militia. I will just head down to the dikken on the corner that also supplies the neighborhood with rpgs, pick a color (is pink taken yet?), a snazzy symbol and I’m set.
Bring on the democracy.

What have you been doing by the way other than blogging?

Mark My words,
It does seem that Gemayel is the one who started the negative campaign, but then again one can argue that Aoun started this by deciding to run against his dead son.

Anonymous,
Vive la diversité !

Don,
Drop the “Lebanese” it’s the same with politicians everywhere..

Dave,
Well, they could at least make a public statement that they will have a clean election, this way, it can be posted on youtube or Lebanese-videos.com for future accountability..

Jas, I didn’t understand your point.

BV & Ralf.
count me in. I dig your logic.

Y.Y.
Choosing between bad and worse is still a choice isn’t it?

YY,

No. You don’t have to go start a militia. How about you start a third option? Run for the Metn seat yourself! Or find someone who will. If the people truely are tired of the two shits who are running, they’ll vote for you (or your candidate).

People have to start somewhere. And people have to understand they are not powerless. They can influence their leaders, or cast them out. But sadly, the mentality in Lebanon is to just complain complain complain and do nothing about it. “It’s the will of God” (or whatever similar platitudes they like to utter).

I do my share…

Define Democracy:

Democracy is the political orientation of those who favor government by the people or by their elected representatives

I don’t see Gemayel ((((((or anybody else for that matter))))) mentioned anywhere in the definition.

Do you get the picture my democratic friend?

Do you get the point ?

Looks like there is only one party that is trying to stop the Constitutional mandates by-elections in Lebanon … makes anyone go hmmmmmmm, Wonder why that is?

this consensus stuff is nothing more than back-room, under the table deals … it must stop.

Mark My Words,

I don’t get what you’re driving at. I’m not pro Gemayel. I’m advocating that multiple choices be given the people, and let them choose. That IS the definition of Democracy. Even if the 2 choices (or more than 2) are flawed. I’d rather have the CHOICE than to be told “Here’s your consensus candidate” (which I have no choice in).

If the people of Metn vote for the FPM guy over Gemayel. That’s great. That tells me exactly what the people of Metn want, and it also will go a long way in teaching them, down the line, to live with the consequences of the guy they voted for (and his party by extension), be them positive consequences or negative consequences.

None of this is possible when there’s a consensus candidate. I really don’t understand what some of you are arguing about.

Short of you guys LIKING being told who your leader is, and not having input in the matter (and then later complaining about the consequences), no one in their right mind should want candidates imposed on them.

Bad Vilbel

I am saying that gmayel doesn’t own this seat, the people should have a say if he should stay or not, period.

I am sick of March14 and their lies……all this crap and waste of time in their media that Aoun is losing his base and support until we got sick of this rhetoric ,,,,,,,,,,why don’t they prove to everybody that Aoun lost his support , now is their best chance before the Presidency elections.

It is obvious that they want to avoid the elections now, so please do everybody a favor and shut up and let the people elect who they see fit.

You talking to me BV? ’cause I’m on your side. Let the people speak and let the chips fall where they will.

And to Mark …. agreed, let
Aoun prove his 70% … I’m a little curious as to why he has all these suits to keep that from happening …. but you keep saying that M14 is trying to stop the elections if that makes you happy.

I say ….. let the people speak. I think they are tired of this nightmare and I also think they are fully aware of who is responsible for it.

Hint … that would be the guys with the tents that have paralyzed the political process and taken Lebanon to war. I’m not a big fan of M14 but you have to look at the realities and the options if you sit back and do nothing. The ‘do nothing’ option is not looking too good right now. I’m not a big fan of living in a war zone.

Quote”Whenever the Christians are divided, the Syrians are better able to help themselves to Lebanon’s sovereignty.”

Does the Syrian scary booboo have to be used in every single situation?

Why do you not accept that democracy should prevail and that it is a normal situation to have mutliple candidates and the people choosing?

Your references to Syria I don’t really understand. Is Gemeyal bringing in Syria?

Is Aoun working for Syria? This propaganda line is getting tiring, nor is it working. If you truely believe that the FPM is tied to Syria Mustapha, then you understand very little about this party.

Please try to be part of the solution, rather than working to further exasparate the situation.

Response to Mustapha:

The plastering of photos of politicians everywhere in neighborhoods with no direct accompanying message (other than graffiti) smacks of tribalism. Political platforms are far more important than the mug shots of tribal or religious leaders, and free democratic elections are not centered on casting a vote for ‘our’ sectarian Big Brother by default. Voting should involve thinking.

Jihad: “Does the Syrian scary booboo have to be used in every single situation?”

Simply put, yes. The method Syria has been using to maintain their hegemony over Lebanon, since time immorial was divide and conquer. It did this with the Palestinians, remember the War of the Camps? When the Christian block, which is one of the strongest, most vocal of the anti-Syrian sectarian groups is divided, Damascus always takes advantage.

I hope all of you who are advocating that this election be held without a consensus candidate (democracy as you put it) are not insinuating that political assassination should be regarded as a normal course of action to be followed to further one’s agendas. Too bad for national unity…
At this time where deputies are being killed off one after another, one should consider that cohesion and social unity should trump a narrow vision of democracy, especially when the Metn deputy will not change the majority in the parliament. In a way contesting this election will give the killers (i.e. Syria) a green light to kill more.

But hopefully, the Aounists will at least be slightly consistent with what they are currently shouting, and show up to the presidential elections in two months for another democratic election.

Sounds like we all agree that the people should be allowed to speak.

That was my point all along: Once the people have spoken, there will be no more excuses. Be it Aoun’s claim to 70% popularity (if he gets it, he’s proven it, if he doesn’t get it. He can’t claim it anymore) or Gemayel or M14’s claims or whatever. That is the beauty of democracy: Have the people pick and have the leaders shut the **** up and stop making grand pronouncements and claims until said claims have been endorsed (or rejected) by the populace.

Sadly, I don’t see that happening in Lebanon anytime soon.

Traffic,

I disagree.

We are not insinuating that assassination is acceptable. But as i expanded on earlier (re-read my lengthy comment towards the start of this thread), as long as you give people free passes (no matter the reason), more people will ask for free passes.
The rules must be respected.

If you want to show to Syria that assassinating our leaders is NOT going to work, go out there and vote for the M14 candidate. They can assassinate as many MPs as they want, we’ll keep re-electing the candidates that are loyal to Lebanon. And WE (the people) will be the one to have made that choice clear (as opposed to the consensus candidate approach).

BV,
I would have totally agreed with you if this was a general election, but this is a simple by-election to fill a vacant seat caused by an assassination. And this election has taken directions that have already fulfilled the assassin’s hopes (further internal divisions, increased animosity and polarization…). However, since the elections now seem headed to a definite clash (I hope it remains within the bounds of a peaceful democratic election), any further discussions of this matter would be simply academic and of no use.

BV:
“That was my point all along: Once the people have spoken, there will be no more excuses”

Well, If my first hand know how on 3rd world election (mostly in South America) is of any use, the party that feels the heat would scream that the election was twisted, voters had their right denied (either by (rural voters) having no transport or were scared to vote), voters got money to vote on someone, etc. - you know the picture.
As in almost every place in the planet, the (sub-)za’ims know how much votes his region (voting district) has and if he got less than what he imagined, often he will resort to nasty things. But, more often, he already has his sheeps on his hands via economic domination, and his “help” would end if the voters don’t comply…
insha’Allah, Metn’ll have a better fate - one that his folks can truly choose.

Divine,

That is true. Hence my “I don’t see that happening in Lebanon soon” comment. We are still far from a true democracy. The losing party will scream about cheating and whatnot. But in the end, I still prefer that partial approach to simply not giving the people a choice. As flawed as they might be, elections will still make the people themselves feel like they have a say in what’s going on. And it will give them an opportunity to learn about consequences and accountability. Something sorely lacking in Lebanon.

BV:

“But in the end, I still prefer that partial approach to simply not giving the people a choice”
+1, Count on me

“Something sorely lacking in Lebanon”
Cheer up, chap! Almost all places are like that… Do you remember the 1st bush election and the florida affair ?
And the “lack of support/enthusiasm” for those concepts are also (sadly) not modern: (Plato) “The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.”

Very true, Divine.

But there is still SOME degree of participation in the US. The recent presidential elections in France also brought out quite a few voters (as did the previous elections, to counter the LePen threat).

There is simply no alternative to having the people speak. In my opinion, even if the people choose the wrong leaders, or choose extremism (say Hamas over Fatah), it is still preferrable to an imposed candidate. I say this for the simple fact that people need to learn about consequences. I can’t stress that enough! The only way you learn to make the right choices is when you are made to suffer or pay for making the wrong choices. When you have no choice, you will keep blaming others. Lebanese people have pretty much had no choice in their leaders (for decades now), and thus springs the scapegoating mentality we see today. They are so quick to blame everything on foreign capitals, inept leaders, corruption, zionist plans or whatever the scapegoat du jour is. In the end, the only way you work that mentality away is to have them make choices. It’s as simple as the logic of “Well, if you’re not happy with these leaders, how about you pick new ones. And if those fail, it’s YOU and YOU alone who selected them.”

Well Said Mustapha!!

Aoun will defenetly win he will be our next president and his alliance with Hezboulla was the best idea, because of him we will live without corruption and in peace

michel aoun the best president in lebanon, al be2a khara, fuck ja3ja3 and jomblat the real traitors oflebanon, aoun is not a pro-syrian, he love his country much that ja3ja3 and jmblat fuckin ases

michel aoun the best president in lebanon, al be2a khara, fuck ja3ja3 and jomblat the real traitors oflebanon, aoun is not a pro-syrian, he love his country much that ja3ja3 and jmblat fuckin ases