After numbers were released that effectively pull the rug under their previous claims, the Bishops should apologize to the Lebanese public.
Finally, the real deity has spoken: Numbers.
Fact 1: There is actually a higher percentage of Christians today in the ISF than there was before, with an increase to 33.04% from 28.85% during previous governments.
Fact 2: The Lebanese law, which the Patriarch had previously approved of allows for 3% of acquisition by foreigners. There is an overall foreign acquisition today of 0.1%. So much for “selling Lebanon out”
Much of the damage is done, and the bishops have a moral duty to apologize. Mr. Sfeir, what would have Jesus done?
Hello, my name is Mustapha and I've been blogging about Lebanese society, business and politics since February 2005.
“”There is an overall foreign acquisition today of 0.1%”"
That is complete hogwash. There are a lot of ways that a foreigner can purchase land in Lebanon and make it look on the book that he doesnt own it..
Don’t count on them to apologize. These bishops (particularly Bechara El Raei) are racist sectarian right wingt bigots.
They lied and claimed that 7.000.000 square miles were sold to foreigners which would mean that 70 % of Lebanon is out of Lebanese hands.
Crooks indeed
No apology needed from them. The apology should come from the government who continues to lie to its people (not that the opposition does any better).
Fact is, ISF does NOT have 33,04 % of Christians. Get me an independant count and you will see. In the meantime, I am surprised that Rifi could say this with a straight face. The numbers are closer to 15%.
On the land issue. One must be a real idiot to actually fall for tghis 0,1 % number. And fake anticlerical maronite, 7000000 square miles is not 70% of Lebanon. Learn to count before making a fool of yourself please.
Mustapha, please don’t ask us to apologize. Even if we had anything to apologize for, we are still waiting for hundreds of apologies from Sunnis ans Shiite clerics!
LebChristian is a typical Christian fanatic
10.452 km2 = 10.452.000 m2
Stupid Bishops said 7.000.000 m2 were sold, ie almost 70 %
From where did you get this 15% Leb Christian. Did you count them? Do you know better than the Director of the ISF or you think he is not reliable because of his sect?
Obviously you cannot disguise you hatred and bigotry…Thank you Anticlerical Maronite, moderates should unite and Priests & Cheikhs should not be involved in politics.
hahahaha, like I said learn how to count before embarassing yourself :
10452 km2 is 10.452.000.000 m2
yalla jares 7alak ba3ed shwey. and stop claiming you’re maronite.
kheireddine, if it makes you sleep better at night to think I have hatred and bigotry, then by all means, believe that crap.
I do not trust Rifi, as I do not trust Aoun, as I do not trust Lahoud, as I do not trust Siniora.
Let’s get some independant numbers then let’s talk.
There is one simple reason why Muslims outnumber Christians in the ISF:
Christians are barely 35% of the population, So 33.04% sound a reasonable figure while 15% does not seem to be realistic. And by the way, is Maronite obliged to beleive what priests say? How about freedom of thought?
kheireddine, according to the latest figures, Christians represent 40 % of Lebanese. However, Rifi made the ISF the new Sunni militia to counter Hezballah. Reports from the end of last year, give evidence that more then 12000 Sunnis were recruited in the past 12 months into the ISF.
Fake anticlerical maronite, can believe whatever he wants for all I care, but if he can’t even do simple maths, forgive me if I find anything else he says lacking in credibility.
Hopefully this is a rumor that 12000 Sunnis got recruted by the ISF. The ISF should remain a national institution.
kheireddine, hopefully it is. But given that Hezballah refuses to lay down its arms, and given that there is no basis for their claims that they will never turn their weapons on Lebanese (they have on several occasions), I wouldn’t be surprised if the Sunnis do create some body to protect its community.
And where does that leave the Christians? Between two idiots, one Aoun and one Geagea.
In the meantime, the only body that still represents the Chritsians including myself, is the Patriarch!
I see your point and it is frightening to see how much the Lebanese got polarized.
Another civil war and we can forget about Lebanon…
kheireddine – it is. Although, all could have been avolided, if Hezballah simply disarmed. We can blame same sunnis for attempting to re-arm. We can blame. some druze for attempting to re-arm. We can blame some Christians for attempting to re-arm.
Sure.
But the only reason why they are re-arming is because some Shiites refused to disarm. So if there is a civil war, all are to be balmed, but first and foremost, it would be the armed shiites and those who support them.
In Lebanon, we never know the exact figures, so there is no point discussing them.
The very nicknames people use are examples of their sectarianism.
Why does LebChristian insists on telling us that he is Christian. Does he think his opinion carries more weight vecause Christians have “quality” ?
Why does the anticlerical insists on telling us that he is maronite ? Isn’t an anticlerical secular by nature ?
Until people start thinking with their brains and not with their sects, there is no future for Lebanon
Thank you LebChristian, sorry for over-reacting, yes the shiites should have disarmed and joined the other Lebanese communities to build a liberated Lebanon.
LebPatriot, Kheireddine is my real name although I am not religious…
Lebpatriot – I am Christian. I am proud of being Christian, and I will not hide my Christianity, despite some wanting me to.
If that bothers you, then please make an abstraction of my name and read the comment rather then the nicknames.
But if you insist on focalizing the debate on nicknames, then you should have at least noted that I said I was Lebanese before anything else, then comes my religion.
Now as to the secularism you propose, please let’s not throw this enfantile project of “thinking with our brains, not with our sects”. The transition towards a secular society and and goverbment is a long one. It will take baby steps, and certainly not giant leaps as one would like. Why you might ask? Because unfortunately, at the present moment, the minute one community sees an opportunity to take the lead at the cost of another, it will jump and seize that opportunity. So you are wrong. Please continue to think with your sect AND your brain, and start baby confidence building measures from all sides, until everyone understands that we are all in this together.
kheireddine – no harm done. I’m always glad to find myself in situations where everything seems to divide us, and yet at the end of the conversation we found out there is more that brings us together then not, and we end up somewhat agreeing with each other.
Cheers
Leb Christian Says:
“I am Christian. I am proud of being Christian”
Nothing to be proud about. You were born Christian. To be proud, you need to have accomplished sthg.
Leb Christian Says: “The transition towards a secular society and and goverbment is a long one. ”
This is what proponents of apartheid in South Africa used to say to justify the status quo. We’ve been hearing this long enough in Lebanon. Time to eradicate the sick sectarian system once and for all.
LebPatriot, that’s where you’re wrong. While one is born with a religion, he / she elects to keep it, be an atheist or convert. While religion in Lebanon unfortunately defines you (whether you like it or not), let us not forget that in the end it is a matter of faith.
Second, comparing apartheid to the sectarian society in Lebanon is ridiculous. It’s a very weak attempt on a technique to discredit an opponent in a debate. Intellectually bankrupt on your part.
By the way, if you know anything of history, you would know that the proponents of apartheid in South Africa, did not call for baby steps towards a free society. They were vehemently opposed to any steps towards the abolishment of apartheid.
LebPatriot,
Time to eradicate the sick sectarian system once and for all.
And how do you propose to do that? The only realistic alternative is “winner takes all” – which is what has happened everywhere else in the Middle-East. I assume you say that because you thing your guys (whatever “non-sectarian” sect you are a part of) are going to win. There’s nothing wrong with a sectarian “quota” system, when the alternative is for one of the sects to impose a tyranny on the others!
Everyone here seems to be saying that they are Lebanese first so where’s the importance that there are x Christians, y Muslims and z Buddhists in the ISF?!
As long as ISF is 100% Lebanese then I really couldn’t care who or what people pray to.
Well Said Jad..
Jad, in an ideal world, I would agree with you. I couldn’t care less what the composition of the ISF is AS LONG as the ISF management itself doesn’t care who joins as lons as they are Lebanese. And unfortunately that is not the case. When 12000 Sunnis join the ISF, and there are virtually no Shiites, and very few Christians, that’s when I begin to worry.
So sorry, not very well said!
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