It’s time to finish the job; obviously, more than 1000 troops are needed in Nahr El Bared.

They need to enter the camp at some point, artillery can only do so much.

why not use rubber bullets to stop the protestors? if real bullets were used there should be an investigation. these are civilians after all. In this scenarion, it seems to me that killing is completely injustifiable — and this does not show your post mustapha.

These people are suffering a double tragedy …

Kinda like Quana… ;-p

To the Zionist,
I can see you are making a “clever” comparison here, but why are you all smiley-happy about it?
Are we not talking abt. innocent people being killed, or is your point that the Zionist Israelis are not the only Ruthless killers out there?
Warped logic, hare-brained, if you ask me!

Ramzi, they don’t make rubber bullets for M16s, as far as I know. They don’t make any non-lethal ammo at all for an M16.

Do you want the Lebanese to carry shotguns (in addition to their M16s) with rubber bullets or beanbags, just in case Palestinians attack them?

And you call people who try to over-run a military outpost during a combat operation “innocents”, Ramzi?

Are Palestinians innocent, no matter what they do?

Real bullets are the best bullets. Innocence - nonsense. In my humble estimation they are the first parties to look to as to why nahar al bared was allowed to become a nest and UNHIDDEN TRAINING GROUND for the dogs now fighting the STATE and killing LEBANESE soldiers. YES YES, poor palestinians what could they do and all that rubbish…FIRST how about NOT MARRYING THEM to widows etc and SECOND HOW ABOUT FIGHTING THEM by using their own palestinian “scholars” and fatah retards who are ARMED for a reason RIGHT?????????? Defence against the enemy!!! I guess armed foreign militants who come in and take over and cause a mini war against the country that still houses you arent really the enemy. OH YES SILLY ME, THEY ARE WAITING FOR THE JOOOOOOS who are comming to take Nahar al bared for all its wealth and stuff!

Unfortunately, this is war and when the fighting is over (whenever the govt gets the balls to do what is necessary) they on recommendation from the relevant authorities will be allowed to go “home”. Otherwise, when going “home” is not feasible i.e. due to damage etc they will be relocated. There must be consequences to INACTION by the vast majority of the refugees in the camps.

The army is TOTALLY BLAMELESS…they have however had to teach a hard leasson to a few follish people.

God bless the Lebanese Army and God Bless Lebanon

That only confirm my belief that these Palestinians are collaborators with Alabsi gang. The army is in this mess because of them; they made their homes a haven for the terrorists and obviously they are giving them Palestinian weapons. They are hardly innocent. How dare they attack the Lebanese army. This is unacceptable.

As far as i know, the people who were protesting were not armed and there are plenty of ways the army can use, with the support of the isfs, to repel these protesters without causing death which, mind you, may like a domino enflame all other camps, something I am sure we all deem undesirable at the time being.

The Lebanese army is conducting two battles. one against a militia and one for the heart and souls of the Lebanese and, i insist, the Palestinians which, like it or not, inhabit Lebanon and are probably more Lebanese than many so-called Lebanese living in some foreign capital, visit during the summer holidays, & now deafness us with the scream of death against “Palestinians”. many commentators here and in other blogs are over exited and simply incapable of constructing a rational argument. Blogs give speech to the speechless.

Being in conflict does absolve us from the highest moral duties. Unfortunately the Lebanese are not very good at that. Whether it is our conduct towards each other in the civil war, or how we destroy our culture and environment or how we treat foreign workers, the list is very long, only the worst can be expected.

Ya dactore shankleah, if the camps are like this, it is foremost of all our responsibility as Lebanese and not the Palestinians whoever they are and wherever they may be. But like many of us, you excel at blaming the others.

I just checked Aljazeera.net to see their coverage of this piece of news. They sure are experts in twisting the truth! They even show a picture of helpless, peaceful women and children instead of the actual picture of the aggressive rioters.

In this age of suicide bombers from all walks of life and in the circumstances of being in a combat situation with militants who don’t necessarily wear a uniform, it’s predictable that Lebanese soldiers would react harshly to such a situation. They want to preserve their own lives too.

As for rubber bullets, why is it expected that the Lebanese army, *ARMY*, have a surfeit of non-lethal options to call on at any moment, especially when they are involved in the most bloody battle they’ve had in over 15 years? Note also it’s the army, not the police. Keep in mind this is not the West Bank. Israeli authorities had a very long time to devote non-lethal equipment preparation and training for such a situation. Not so in Lebanon. Perhaps whoever instigated the rush on the position forgot to take that into account. Or perhaps they didn’t care.

I think Shunkleash argument prevail on yours ramzi, I think you are naive to believe (or want us to believe) that this last protest was about going back home more than a window to more confrontation or a diversion move. I dont want to hear anymore “innocent palestinians” you want to use this word go back to the 80’s thats when it made the biggest effect, today everybody know how “innocent” palestinians are and specially after seing palestinians giving other palestinians flying lessons in Gaza.
It is true that the camps are this way because of the way we allowed them to be in the past. But now taht we are fixing things, you are against this new shaping?
- the camps are for civilians and not fortifications for terrorists
- No weapons in the camps
- No mercy with outlaws and anybody who protects, arms and hide outlaws
In order to have humanitarian laws, we need to have laws first!

Ralf,

i am sorry to let you know that you seriously misread me. in fact i never claimed the palestinians involved are innocent. and i do not even infer or attempt to justify the motives of these protests. you should overcome your manichean world and think out of the box for a while

This is a nonsense post. You’ve somehow decided to forward this unqualified assertion that these protestors “attacked” an army outpost. That’s quite dishonest of you.

I suggest you search the wire service photos, you’ll see there was a distance between the Lebanese Army (which must rank as one of the worst, most untrained armies in the world) and the protestors. You’ll also notice that the protestors were unarmed, were not carrying sticks or clubs (as claimed by the state-run NNA), and were not throwing stones.

In sum, you are defending the right of the Lebanese army to use live ammunition to disperse protests. That’s quite repugnant.

Mani must be rumbling in his grave. Manicheism is actually seing both sides and not hiding behind the words civilian, and what was that again.. Oh YEAH, moral duties!!! and forgetting about the whole context! pfffff. (i’m laughing in my box, can anybody hear that?)
Stop BSsing the world with your humanitarian concepts. 95% of the protesters today came out to get shot at, they got what they came for, everybody is happy, so why the fuss???

More stupidity:

“95% of the protesters today came out to get shot at, they got what they came for, everybody is happy, so why the fuss???”

And you say this based on what? You people need to shed your racist preconceptions.

Right Fadi, I saw them marching with candles and roses for our soldiers too huh? They were unarmed, ya haram, poor X. who got shot today, it was the first time he leaves his rpg home. Pity, pity. Poor X., he was going to grow up to be thrown off a window in his bdg back home in Gaza. haram. And the second X who died, geee, he was the most iminent stone thrower scientist. What a loss…

manicheisme, racisme, preconceptions… big words in the 80’s! 0 effect today!

Such blatant racism, no comment is necessary, you’ve made my case for me.

As an old Israeli with far roots in south Leb. few words.
1) No good will come of this to any decent person. As it goes in the Levant the blood will only bring more blood.
2) Every thing said about the Leb. army may be true, perhaps. But all armies even the most famous ones are always unprepared, always have the wrong ammunition, always are manned by stupid, or nervous, or incompetent ect. It is always easy to talk back home or on electronic blog about rubber ammo. or this or that special tactics. When soldiers are faced by an advancing group of people thing tend to go out of hand.
3) This march was orgenized by clever people who knew para 2 above and much more. The orgenizers of the march knew very well what they were doing also they are alive and well they always are.
4) Some body orgenized it. They, not some mythical evil Palestinians, the puppets who paid the price, should be blamed.
5) I have some ideas about these and sorry you will find some of them not only in Syria but also among these very fine, good, honest, NGO people who talked with your PM the other day.
6) I sure hope that calm will come to leb. soon. Nobody in leb. deserves more of this.

esds

[...] There are now two versions of the Beddawi camp violence: The official Lebanese Army version, and the “Eyewitness version“ [...]

I repeat myself for the benfit of the few. I personally believe in a political solution to the palestinian question but that solution should not involve lebanon and I don’t care how many generations you can breed in 50 yrs. Nevertheless, unless the palestinians refuse leaders like that dog Arafat the only conclusion I ma prepared to reach is that they do NOT want a political solution nor do they have a desire for one.

Furthermore, I have NEVER advocated mass murder…I have however stated very clearly in the past that I have no sympathy for people who are happy with their perpetual victimhood as if it is some BADGE of honour to pass on to their children. Hence, if a palestinian is killed by the bullet of an army private shaking in his boots from fear then…it is self preservation. No tears will be shed.

RACIST!?!? Quick, everyone hide and don’t question anything anymore…we are RACIST!! TUZ! Unless i have missed something the last time I checked the palestinians were not a RACE Fadi go and check a dictionary or do you know that already and you are just here to spew garbage??

Hazbani what does this mean “As an old Israeli with far roots in south Leb. few words.” An “israeli” what? Are you a landmine?

In order for “clever” people to be able to organise you have to be willing to be led…are you therefore saying that the people of the camps are mere drones that will follow any order given to them for the sake of their cause…gee new one to me.

As for checking the “wires” why should we? Are we to start believing the smartasses who are motivated by greed to get the “perfect shot”…I think I had enough of the AP, AFP and HIZBTEEZEE and all the doctored photos. For me, a modicum of intelligence would lead one to believe that going back to Nahar al barad is dangerous far less when you are trying to enter an open combat zone BY FORCE…BY THE WAY..for all you al jazeera lovers out there check this…the use of “force” is the only way you will get past an army. NOT SO?

This comment is disgusting and deserves a flush—>”…the Palestinians which, like it or not, inhabit Lebanon and are probably more Lebanese than many so-called Lebanese living in some foreign capital, visit during the summer holidays, & now deafness us with the scream of death against “Palestinians”.” Yeah, you hit the nail on the head…that is all we shallow lebanese are about…vactations and blood lust and stuff…great point

By the way Ramzi im flattered, but I never got the chance to be a Dactore, or anything else for that matter, an “EVENT” got in the way:-) Just call me Shunkleash

Shunk. go clean your mouth and mind. Go learn the history of the Jews in Lebanon. In 1940-1950 there were about 20.000 -30.0000 Jews in leb. now there are ? perfect ethnic cleaning. Even before that my fore fathers were born in Hazbaya. They were kicked out by Lebanese who told them to go to their own country so they went. They did not sit in a camp and cried they built. They even do not want any thing from Leb. just leave us alone. In 1948 You !!!! the Lebanese invaded the country into which you send them. You have nothing to do there. You were sent back, running. If some people in Lebanon belive that they should be the tip of the Palestinian sword, fine. If some people in Lebanon belive that they want nothing to do with the mess dowen south and will build a 100 meter high wall on the south border, fine. If some belive that both Israel and Leb. should live like two normal European countries fine.