some of these guys are much more mature than their party’s leadership.

How difficult is that?

More seriously, there have got to be sane voices at FPM who, whatever their disagreement with M14, are aware that their current stance is not working and outright dangerous for the country and everyone, including themselves.

You are right. I think these guys are strategists and planners. I think there leaders are the ones that are short-sighted and opportunitists!

It is true that the last actions of the leaders of FPM started to shake the beliefs between FPM supporters. They are guys that are discovering that they have been misled and started requestioning (timidly) their leaders choices.
What would be even better is that the March 14 guys start doing the same.

…

Interesting. Not any different than any other group, I guess. Open-minded folks, and closed-minded folks.

I notice that the “paranoid” guy is the one thinking in sectarian terms. FPM has always had 2 sides: The secular, pro Lebanon side (as seen in first 2 comments) and the “Christian” side (as seen in the latter).

The secular pro-Lebanon variety is obviously the one that I hope “wins” that debate. They are not that unlike the pro-M14 crowd, at the core, even if they’re a bit off or misguided at the moment.

The “Christian” variety, on the other hand, simply end up turning Aoun into another “Christian leader” (ala Geagea, back in the civil war days) and if they prevail, will lead us down the same path we saw back in the civil war days.

If as I suspect Mr. Aoun and/or his quislings read the blogs perhaps its time they “refresh” their pages because clearly they are not seeing the shift in support(although at the speed of molasses up hill) away from his/their useless cause. If Aoun truly represented the christian “cause” then he would actually feel for his community and allow the MAJORITY with whom HIS community have sided to actually go about their business and he would RETIRE to the green fields of Lorraine.

I for one would gladly buy him the bottle of prozac he requires and bid him Bon Voyage MR. Almost But Not A Chance In Hell At Being President.

Such a scenario would almost certainly spell the end of Hizbteezee as the face of a “legitimate” (that was hard to type) opposition and force them to disclose their true intentions…which is to make lebanon the shithole Iran has become.

I could of course be wrong

Is there a similar place where I can read about the sane people supporting march 14th and proposing similar open ideas?

IE those saying it is OK if we -march 14th- lose something … anything on the short term so that Lebanon wins on the long term?

Or do all march14th supporters believe like the third FPMers that there is no middle ground and they have to fight and win and hold ground in every single short term event?

These are not rhetorical questions, I really hope you guys can send some links my way.

The only difference between 14 March and 8 March is very clear no need for a big effort to sort it out:
- 14 March Fans are supporting the leaders cause they think their leaders are representing what they want: independent lebanon, civilised with no weapons except with gov and a country protected from both Israel and Syria.

- 8 March FANS are supporting their leader for different reasons
1- They want what their leaders want them to want ( they use faith in politics but politics are not like religions)

2- They are driven by sectarian and historical and division ideas ( Shia are marginated, Christians are weak, War Lords, Hariri stole the country etc … )

All the Lebanese are suffering and all the lebanese suffered in the past whole Lebanese were and are victims. We are all equal.

I just want from all opposition and majority just to think how they want the Lebanon of their children to look like a divided one or an independent open-minded civilised and peaceful for all Lebanese.

I really like to see what do the Hizbullah’s and Berri’s groups say in their blogs! Any links?

Anonymous,

I like to think that this and other “March 14″ blogs are the answer you’re looking for. The Beirut Spring has on many times criticized March 14 leaders and opened up to March 8 folks, as I’m sure other like-minded bloggers do..

Ghassan,

The commonly-held belief among western observers is that the people Hezbollah represent are too poor to have blogs (internet connections..etc).
I find that theory ridiculous, only judging by the likes of Ali who keep on commenting (with excellent English) here.
I’m aware of Jamal (jamalghosn.blogspot.com), but he hasn’t been writing for a while..

Mustapha, apologies if i seemed blind or oblivious to your reason and moderate-ism :-) but I meant on march 14 forums.
I am sure in the comfort of their homes/blogs and away from group peer pressure, many M14 supporters voice their opinions freely and criticize their leaders freely, but I was hoping to find supporters of future (such as yourself) saying what you say when you criticize Hariri or Seniora on future forums, and not get shouted at about it, or criticizing Jeajea decisions of LF forums openly and not being called a traitor or something.

My point is, it seems normal if such discussion is taking place on unitedlb’s own blog, but it is note worthy that it is taking place on the official FPM forum. No ?

Does that happen with other movements? For example from your own experience, are your articles disagreeing with future policy or LF discussed openly on future/LF forums or are they booed down automatically there?

Maybe I should check myself instead of ask others to do the homework for me :-) but I thought you might already know or can find out easier since I don’t follow any of the concerned forums (LF, Future of FPM or others …)

I’m gonna venture a guess that MOST official forums from any sides (including LF, Hezb, Future, etc.) are a lot more closeminded than the average M14 supporter on an independent forum (like this one).

It’s a guess, mind you. I could be wrong. I don’t frequent the LF forums, or future forums, or FPM forums. But it’s been my observation that overall, people on such forums are generally the cheerleading type of fanbase. All rah-rah and not really open to intelligent debate.

I find the more rational people often stay away from “affiliated” forums or blogs, and tend to express their views in private, or on “unaffiliated” blogs and forums.

Actually, when the fighting broke out last month, there was a thread on the LF forum calling for Sanioura to quit, and most people in the thread were in agreement, which was surprising. And I have seen criticism of Geagea on there too.

There are many intelligent people on the FPM forums but, like you said, they tend to be paranoid and they think everything is a Zionist conspiracy, so it’s hard for any intelligent discussion to arise in such an environment.

hahaha, Venom was referring to the remarkable mistake the Cabinet passed to cancel Good Friday, using the excuse of saving the economy.

The government gave an official apology and rightly should, and corrected the mistake they have committed.

whywesteppin ,
The criticism of geagea on the LF forum is exactly what I was looking for can you help out with a link to the thread?
Thanks salaf.

And jester,
The whole holiday issue is just making a mountain out of a molehill (aw ebbeh min 7abbeh) … Now we have one day of holiday on good Friday and they cancelled the holiday on Easter Monday, much better yea?

All that was suggested is to make the holiday consecutive Sunday-Monday instead of Friday Sunday, just like all -Christian- western nations? Big deal.

I don’t care either way since luckily I don’t work on Saturdays :-)
But fine if some people got offended let them have it their way ma badda hal add.

Just have to say to you orange people - Grow a brain! Follow your God if you know who he is, and stand by the Maronite people. You leader is betraying all of you! He is acting like this just for his pockets sake, not for you!
So, I hope that one day the colour orange turns into real flames and you all burn in hell! YOU Traitors! You Pigs! Nobody is destabilising Lebanon but you & hezbollah! You are not worth spitting on!