It is becoming clear that “Sweet Talking” is an essential part of Iran’s quest for dominion.
First, a quiz: “The way out of the present crisis is through […] dialogue without preconditions on the basis of no winner, no loser; a government of national unity,”
Who made the above statement today?
You’d be excused to think it was Hassan Nassrallah. After all, it’s filled with those nice Lebanese wishy washy terms. But no it’s not, that was Hamas’ Ismail Haniya laying out his vision of the best solution to the Palestinian crisis.
In other words, after militarily taking over Gaza and brutally killing many fatah members, Hamas wants “dialogue” and a “nationaly unity government”.
This is a classic Iranian charm offensive, or what I call “sweet talking”, where after violently creating facts on the ground, like invading a territory or descending to the capital’s central district, you pretend that all you want is friendship and brotherhood (mousharaka).
Of course, when those initially attacked (like Abu Mazen and P.M Sanioura) see right through the deception and refuse to give in, Iran, Aljazeera and Assafir immediately play their P.R. Ace: America and Israel are preventing Arabs and Muslims from dialoguing with each other.
And it actually works! It’s amazing how many people keep falling for this gambit, which is an essential part of Iran’s Modus operandi (step 3) as described by Barry Rubin (Via Tony):
Step 1: promote a client group with funding, weapons and training. Urge it to violence.Step 2: provoke a split between your client group and the others.
Step 3: negotiate a deal in which your clients have about half the power.
Step 4: use the deal to get stronger, then break it and take over completely.
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The beirut spring is a blog that is interested in Lebanese society and its politics. It started in February 2005 after the assassination of Prime Minister Rafik Hariri
June 23rd, 2007 at 6:43 pm
I thought the Fletcher Graduate School of International Affairs was among the best in the field….
Teheran College for future world leader seems to be graduating a whole generation of high achieving world renouned zou’ama and “statesmen”.
One format fits all and for some strange reason IT WORKS!!!
What is Iceland immigration policy? Anyone?
June 23rd, 2007 at 7:28 pm
Anon,
One format fits all and for some strange reason IT WORKS!!!
It only works with Muslims. Everybody else figured out this Modus Operandi 1000 years ago. I’m not sure why Muslims still fall for it. It was Arabs who taught the trick to the Persians and the Turks. Maybe Arabs have been out of power so long, they forgot that this is exactly how Arab Muslims over-ran the middle-east and North Africa?
I’m not trying to start trouble. I’m just trying to point out that this isn’t an Iranian thing. It’s an “Islam” thing.
June 23rd, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Oh! A small correction!
Everybody else figured out this Modus Operandi 1000 years ago
Everybody except the FRENCH figured this out 1000 years ago. France was occupied by Germans at the time, so perhaps it’s understandable that they missed the lessons of Iberia, Tours and Toulouse and then the (many) crusades, and the two battles of Vienna. And all the other related mini-campaigns. Complete refusal to engage in any sort of diplomacy with Muslims invariably resulted in victory. Negotiating away the incremental aggressions invariably resulted in defeat.
June 23rd, 2007 at 8:26 pm
Quran 004.091
YUSUFALI: Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: Every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto: if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them: In their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them.
The solution to the incremental aggression the Iranians are using is also in the Quran. It’s nice how the Quran offers up both the recipe, and the most effective counter to it :)
June 23rd, 2007 at 9:29 pm
to Craig,
Maybe you’re a deceptive or an ignorant individual, and it appear that you blindly paste lies from anti-Islamic sites, let’s analyse the REAL verse;
An-Nisa
4:91 You will find [that there are] others who would like to be safe from you as well as safe from their own folk, [but who,] whenever they are faced anew with temptation to evil, plunge into it headlong. [112] Hence, if they do not let you be, and do not offer you peace, and do not stay their hands, seize them and slay them whenever you come upon them: for it is against these that We have clearly empowered you [to make war].
In Arabic:
سَتَجِدُونَ آخَرِينَ يُرِيدُونَ أَن يَأْمَنُوكُمْ وَيَأْمَنُواْ قَوْمَهُمْ كُلَّ مَا رُدُّوَاْ إِلَى الْفِتْنِةِ أُرْكِسُواْ فِيِهَا فَإِن لَّمْ يَعْتَزِلُوكُمْ وَيُلْقُواْ إِلَيْكُمُ السَّلَمَ وَيَكُفُّوَاْ أَيْدِيَهُمْ فَخُذُوهُمْ وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ ثِقِفْتُمُوهُمْ وَأُوْلَـئِكُمْ جَعَلْنَا لَكُمْ عَلَيْهِمْ سُلْطَانًا مُّبِينً
This verse is dealing with hypocrites who fight and trick people, its ordering muslims to fight corrupt people and kill them if they didn’t give up there evil acts hence “if they do not let you be, and do not offer you peace, and do not stay their hands,”
The noble quran without a doubt forbids muslims from attacking innocents;
Quran 8:61 - But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)
Quran 60:8 - God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers.
Quran 2:193 - And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers.
I am sick and tired of people on the net who have dunning-kruger effect thinking there more scholarly than muslims scholars just by reading anti-islamic sites.
June 23rd, 2007 at 10:44 pm
Alex,
I am sick and tired of people on the net who have dunning-kruger effect thinking there more scholarly than muslims scholars just by reading anti-islamic sites.
The Noble Qur’an
That is not an “anti-Islamic site” - that is the University of Southern California. USC. One of the best Universities in the world.
Furthermore, it offers the complete translation of the QUran, by SHAKIR, YUSUFALI, and PICKTHAL. The three best existing English language versions of the Quran. Side by side, for comparison.
Who translated yours?
This verse is dealing with hypocrites who fight and trick people, its ordering muslims to fight corrupt people and kill them if they didn’t give up there evil acts
It doesn’t actually say anything about Muslims. Not even in your version of the translation. But, regardless, I agree. Bottom line, it says to kill the treacherous, who try to use trickery and false promises against you.
I fail to see how this can’t be applied to HAMAS. Or Al Qaeda. Or Hezbollah. Or, Iran, for that matter. There is no exemption when it is Muslims who are the treacherous ones. Is there?
And, just so you know, I’ve probably read more of the Quran than most Muslims.
Have you read the Quran, Alex? I haven’t yet met a Muslim who has read the whole thing. That seems to be strictyly optional for Muslims, which makes them quite different from Christians. You won’t meet many practicing Christians who haven’t read the Bible in it’s entirety at least once.
But thanks for your OH SO VALUABLE input about Islam. I used to listen to bullshitters like you, and believe them. No more. I can read scripture as well as the next guy, and I don’t need to take the word of some ignorant fuckhead who gets all his Islamic scoop from Al Jazeera and Hassan Nasrallah.
This verse is dealing with hypocrites who fight and trick people
June 24th, 2007 at 12:11 am
Craig,
“That is not an “anti-Islamic site” - that is the University of Southern California. USC. One of the best Universities in the world.
Furthermore, it offers the complete translation of the QUran, by SHAKIR, YUSUFALI, and PICKTHAL. The three best existing English language versions of the Quran. Side by side, for comparison.
Who translated yours?”
- Unlike you, I know Arabic and i can understand it my self, this is the real verse in Arabic, ask any who speaks arabic to translate it for you;
سَتَجِدُونَ آخَرِينَ يُرِيدُونَ أَن يَأْمَنُوكُمْ وَيَأْمَنُواْ قَوْمَهُمْ كُلَّ مَا رُدُّوَاْ إِلَى الْفِتْنِةِ أُرْكِسُواْ فِيِهَا فَإِن لَّمْ يَعْتَزِلُوكُمْ وَيُلْقُواْ إِلَيْكُمُ السَّلَمَ وَيَكُفُّوَاْ أَيْدِيَهُمْ فَخُذُوهُمْ وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ ثِقِفْتُمُوهُمْ وَأُوْلَـئِكُمْ جَعَلْنَا لَكُمْ عَلَيْهِمْ سُلْطَانًا مُّبِينً
Reference: http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/
“I fail to see how this can’t be applied to HAMAS. Or Al Qaeda. Or Hezbollah. Or, Iran, for that matter. There is no exemption when it is Muslims who are the treacherous ones. Is there?”
- I am not justifying the actions of hamas, alqeada, hezballah or irans, I’m against extremism in any shape or form, what their doing is wrong and yes I want hamas and Hezbollah to disarm and YES I want the Iranians to stop there medalling in the irapi and Lebanese affairs, but trying to pin this on islam is cheap.
“Have you read the Quran, Alex? I haven’t yet met a Muslim who has read the whole thing. That seems to be strictyly optional for Muslims, which makes them quite different from Christians. You won’t meet many practicing Christians who haven’t read the Bible in it’s entirety at least once.”
- Its seems (again) that you know absolutely nothing about islam, in islam every muslim is required to read the quran from the beginning to the end more than once especially in Ramadan, and numerous people try to memorize the WHOLE book.
“But thanks for your OH SO VALUABLE input about Islam. I used to listen to bullshitters like you, and believe them. No more. I can read scripture as well as the next guy, and I don’t need to take the word of some ignorant fuckhead who gets all his Islamic scoop from Al Jazeera and Hassan Nasrallah.”
- Your hatred and bigotry against arabs and muslims speaks volumes, you refuse to accept the other side point of view and insult me just because I disagree with your hate, debating with you is seedless and with no value.
PS. Im a member of the future movement, therefore I don’t care about what nasrallah and Jazeera say or do.
June 24th, 2007 at 12:29 am
gee guys,
Talk about changing the subject..
June 24th, 2007 at 1:14 am
lol..sorry mostafa,
read this article very inspiring
http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/2007/06/shooting_at_leb.php
June 24th, 2007 at 1:19 am
to craig,
sorry if i was insulting man, but i hate it when people think that all muslims are demonic monster want to invade the world and the only solution is to nuke them all.
peace? :)
June 24th, 2007 at 2:13 am
Unlike you, I know Arabic and i can understand it my self, this is the real verse in Arabic, ask any who speaks arabic to translate it for you;
Why would I do that? I have access to the three best available professional English translations of the Quran. You think your own translation is better? :P
Better for you, maybe. I caught on to the way a lot of Muslims sugar-coated Islam when dealing with non-Muslims. I read it for myself, now. If you don’t like the sources I use, too bad. They are the best sources available.
sorry if i was insulting man, but i hate it when people think that all muslims are demonic monster want to invade the world and the only solution is to nuke them all.
peace? :)
And you think that’s what I think, and what I want, do you? Well, I don’t want to get into too much personal stuff, but you have me all wrong.
June 24th, 2007 at 3:13 am
“Why would I do that? I have access to the three best available professional English translations of the Quran. You think your own translation is better? :P”
- I’m giving you the real arabic verse straight from the quran, if you dont believe me ask any one how knows arabic to translate it for you, I’m not trying to sugar-coated anything I don’t care if you believe islam, but please be more understanding.
“And you think that’s what I think, and what I want, do you? Well, I don’t want to get into too much personal stuff, but you have me all wrong.”
- Forgive me if I miss judged you, I also came across several individuals who didn’t realize that muslims are humans too, and when senator in congress suggests to nuke the whole middle east and all Islamic holy sites or when jeff fugate from the Baptist church say “They hate us. They want to kill us. I’m not anti-Jewish or anti-Catholic. I’m anti-Islam because that religion right there is anti-American.”, some how i get the impression that they don’t really like us.
If you want to know the Islamic point of view please visit this site:
http://www.understanding-islam.com/
you can sign to there forum and ask any question you want, and its UP TO YOU to decide.
Chears
June 24th, 2007 at 5:43 am
to alex and craig:
i dont think the problem is islam…and this is coming from a follower of christ. i do think the problem is when smeone or a group of people take the words of god and twist them into meaning or supporting their own personal or group beliefs. this happens in all religions. you get someone who has charisma or what ever and people start following them. most often to their own demise and deaths. jonestown, that cult in tokyo, etc. there is no religion that teaches hatred…other than satanism, i guess. and i guess you would classify me as southern baptist (i label myself just “a follower of christ”), but hearing what you said jeff fugate say, makes no sense. jeff fugate doesnt seem like he knows what he’s talking about , at least in this context.
“They hate us. They want to kill us. I’m not anti-Jewish or anti-Catholic. I’m anti-Islam because that religion right there is anti-American.”
he’s anti-islam because they are anti-american?? i guess he forgot that commandment that states love your neighor. god doesnt care what country you’re from. heck there are plenty of americans that are anti-american. then there is the whole definition of what “american” means and what people are referring to. i am definately anti corporate america, but definately pro american ideals (ie freedom of religion/ speech/etc). i also dont consider myself to be what the world would claim as a “typical” american…anyways, there are people everywhere that make rash comments, that people one the “other side” will jump on and use to fit their own agenda. right now, i feel that iran is using everything to their agenda to have another persian empire “in the name of allah”, although i believe it isnt truly for allah. its for power…human power…greed. they want nuclear power, military power and religious power. when the framers of the US constitution set out to form the US, there was to not be an official national religion or official language so that no one can be discriminated against. sure there have been issues over the centuries but still today, it is the same. i have a mosque, a couple of temples and numerous churches (even a scientology place) within a mile of my house. there are also 3 middle eastern eateries within the same distance, that we eat at regularly. i dont know where i was going with that, but i guess the point i was trying to make is that there are bad apples in every group (religion) and in order to set those apples straight, it takes wise persons within that religion. it wont work if its a christian telling a muslim or vice versa. it needs to be done in a loving, intelligent way, privately and if that doesnt work than it should be done more openly. what has happened over there in the middle east and other places, is that someone has taken an issue with an entity (US in some shape or form) and applied religion to it to add legitamacy and have taught misguided/ hopeless feeling/ alienated persons that it is allahs will to engage in fighting. what i dont see is the main islamic teachers/clerics coming out and calling out the heretics for one reason or another, which is giving those heretics more perceived power. maybe they are appeasing them out of fear of losing their own power or the think that it will go away, i dont know. anyways, enough of this post. sorry its sooo long.
June 24th, 2007 at 6:49 am
anthem boy,
i really enjoyed your comment and i thank you for the smile you brought to my face :), i apologise if any of my comments offended you or any christian, and I agree with you that all religions preach kindness, honesty and forgiveness to your fellow man.
“but i guess the point i was trying to make is that there are bad apples in every group (religion) and in order to set those apples straight, it takes wise persons within that religion.”
True, the problem where facing as muslims is we’re too scared or too lazy to exterminate the twisted ideologies of the extremists in our land, a normal arab is suffering like hell thanks to these terrorists.
Cheers
June 24th, 2007 at 6:54 am
Alex,
I’m giving you the real arabic verse straight from the quran, if you dont believe me ask any one how knows arabic to translate it for you, I’m not trying to sugar-coated anything I don’t care if you believe islam, but please be more understanding.
I think you are missing my point. That USC site has the three best respected English translations of the Quran, in existence. Do you think you translated it better than those three did? Maybe you should do an English translation of the Quran.
As it happens, I chat every day with an Arab Muslim, and I have read and discussed fairly large portions of those English translations at USC with her. I’ve even asked her to explain how some of the shocking parts (some verses are quite shocking) can be interpreted in “context” to mean something other than what they seem to be saying. She generally does a pretty good job of explaining to me what the verses mean to her, and what she has been taught that they mean.
However, as a non-Muslim with no preconceptions, I can see how some of those verses can easily be used to justify some atrocious behavior.
And, I don’t really know what to say about that, since there apparently isn’t any one authority that can lay down the law about what controversial verses really mean.
Forgive me if I miss judged you, I also came across several individuals who didn’t realize that muslims are humans too, and when senator in congress suggests to nuke the whole middle east and all Islamic holy sites or when jeff fugate from the Baptist church say “They hate us. They want to kill us. I’m not anti-Jewish or anti-Catholic. I’m anti-Islam because that religion right there is anti-American.”, some how i get the impression that they don’t really like us.
You may not have misjudged me. I do not believe that Islam can co-exist peacefully with other religions in it’s current form. I do not want Muslims “nuked” though - I want Muslims to change the way they interpret the Quran.
More in the way that my Muslim friend reads it, and not in the way that Osama bin Ladin and Hassan Nasrallah and the crazy fucker in the Mickey Mouse suit,. read it.
If you want to know the Islamic point of view please visit this site:
http://www.understanding-islam.com/
you can sign to there forum and ask any question you want, and its UP TO YOU to decide.
Well, thanks for the link, but I still don’t understand what you want from me. Is Islam what is written in the Quran, or Islam something different from that? Because I consider Christianity to be what is written in the new Testament, and whenever I hear something in Church (or from another Christian) that is at odds with what I read in the New Testament with my own eyes, and my own understanding - I dispense with it. Politely. Usually silently :)
If I have questions about something in the Quran I ask my friend. We’ve come upon several issues where what is written in the Quran is clearly not what Muslims practice, in real life. And on those she has reluctantly admitted that it’s just tradition, and that she can’t imagine it will ever be changed. I don’t think she is the only Muslim who has come to such realizations. Do you?
June 24th, 2007 at 7:04 am
Anthem Boy, good comment. I don’t disagree with anything you said. However, I’m losing hope that Islam will ever become de-radicalized. It seems to me that the crazies are in full force, just like what happened with the Catholics in Europe during the middle ages. It took a lot of religious wars and a lot years to get that sorted out.
June 24th, 2007 at 7:09 am
By the way, Alex, sorry it escalated into an insult fest. Especially sorry if I started it. I seem to have gotten you wrong a bit as well :)
June 24th, 2007 at 8:13 am
Craig,
We’re running in circles here and going at the same subject again and again, this is my last comment because I need my sleep :).
Ok these are the 3 translations from the site you gave me;
YUSUFALI: Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: Every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto: if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them: In their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them.
PICKTHAL: Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.
SHAKIR: You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority.
- Now lets take the third translation (shakir) since its more explanatory, notice “therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them;”
In simple terms that means if they didn’t stop there sinful and corrupt actions they will be punished, ok now lets check the translation I posted on my first comment;
4:91 You will find [that there are] others who would like to be safe from you as well as safe from their own folk, [but who,] whenever they are faced anew with temptation to evil, plunge into it headlong. [112] Hence, if they do not let you be, and do not offer you peace, and do not stay their hands, seize them and slay them whenever you come upon them: for it is against these that We have clearly empowered you [to make war].
- When you compare the two translations there exactly the same in meaning, therefore I don’t know why are you so keen to refer to USC site when both agree :S.
————————————-
“You may not have misjudged me. I do not believe that Islam can co-exist peacefully with other religions in it’s current form. I do not want Muslims “nuked” though - I want Muslims to change the way they interpret the Quran.”
- I don’t know what you mean, MOST muslims co-existed peacefully with other non-muslims like; morocco, Egypt, Syria (thou I don’t like the government), Kuwait, uae, Jordan and many more arab countries co-existed with Christians, I lived in kuwait for some time and there were Christians going to churchs, wearing crosses and freely expressing there religion, but yes I do agree with you that some muslims are intolerant and that’s totally wrong.
“If I have questions about something in the Quran I ask my friend. We’ve come upon several issues where what is written in the Quran is clearly not what Muslims practice, in real life. And on those she has reluctantly admitted that it’s just tradition, and that she can’t imagine it will ever be changed. I don’t think she is the only Muslim who has come to such realizations. Do you?”
- No offence to your friend, but the site I gave you is owned by the best muslim scholars on the internet, and yes I do agree with you that the arab mentality is sculpted by their culture and I think their’s hope and we need to use islam as tool to change the backward attitude.
“I’ve even asked her to explain how some of the shocking parts (some verses are quite shocking) can be interpreted in “context” to mean something other than what they seem to be saying.”
- If you need more information about the “shocking verse” visit this site;
http://www.load-islam.com/artical_det.php?artical_id=414§ion=wel_islam&subsection=Misconceptions
“By the way, Alex, sorry it escalated into an insult fest. Especially sorry if I started it. I seem to have gotten you wrong a bit as well :)”
- no worries mate :)
chears,
June 24th, 2007 at 8:15 am
the above post is mine, sorry i forgot to put my name :S
June 24th, 2007 at 11:03 am
I disagree with Mustapha. The fighting would not have happened in the first place had Fatah agreed to fully peacefully share power with Hamas, in spite of Hamas’ victory last year. And the United States’s role in encouraging Fatah to take up arms against Hamas is not just Arab nationalist propaganda; it’s been documented by the American journalist Tony Karon & Israeli journalist Danny Rubinstein.
June 24th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
Alex,
I don’t know what you mean, MOST muslims co-existed peacefully with other non-muslims like; morocco, Egypt, Syria (thou I don’t like the government), Kuwait, uae, Jordan and many more arab countries co-existed with Christians, I lived in kuwait for some time and there were Christians going to churchs, wearing crosses and freely expressing there religion, but yes I do agree with you that some muslims are intolerant and that’s totally wrong.
Muslism in those countries seem to have a better opinion about how they treat Christians than the Christians themsleves do. Egypt in particular has been troublesome, with Christian women being kidnapped and raped and then forcibly converted to Islam. And forcibly married against their will. Religious persecution doesn’t get any worse than that, does it?
Lebanon has probably the best record… but Lebanon also has the largest percentage of Christians, which automatically makes them less vulnerable.
We’ll have to disagree on this one. I know you won’t see it my way :)
PS - I was actually speaking on the international level, anyway.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:40 am
Mustapha, why did you say “Arabs and muslims” and not ‘just’ “Arabs” (whatever religion)? Or did you mean with saying that “Arabs and non-Arab muslims”? [would that include non-muslim Arabs?]
June 25th, 2007 at 12:02 pm
@Alex, Google translates your quoted Arabic text as:
“You will find others want to gain your confidence and their people : all responded to the discord which do not keep away from you and offer you peace and restrain their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye those, you have made them an authority indicated”
Anyway, do I understand correctly that the verse means that:
A. there is a person belonging to a particular nation who sides with one side (your side) AND his side. E.g. someone related to a particular nation and working for your nation and his own. And;
B. that when his nation is doing combat relating stuff, he joins them. Without taking distance, or offering peace to your nation, or decided not to fight or work for his own nation.
C. Then you can kill him. Everywhere where they are.
Thus, e.g. [I am not using any arabic country because that might confuse the lot of you] .. If there is a war going on between Italy and France and there is this French guy working for the Italian and French government, but decides to pick up the arms against Italy, while not putting down the arms, while not deciding to offer peace and while not taking distance from the battle, it means that Italy is allowed to kill this French guy.
[If my interpretation is correct, then, Craig, with all the respect, I do not see how this is compatible with the Iranians sticking their noses into Lebanese business. (???) Unless you mean that all the Lebanese are working also for the Iranians and “betraying them” and therefor should be punished as such by Iran - according to the Quran.]
August 31st, 2007 at 11:23 pm
[…] Watching Iran has made us believe that its proxies often use tactical friendliness (Palestinian Unity government, the hiwar in Lebanon, and recently Muqtada El Sadr’s 6 months unilateral ceasefire in Iraq) to negotiate power-sharing arrangements only to break them later and take over completely. Why is it different now Mr. Berri? […]