It provides a great insight into the minds of the Lebanese.

Yes, that NYT article hits the spot. Among other things, it says:

“Only Hezbollah, she said, can defend them against Israel.”

For six years, Israeli troops had not stepped onto Lebanese soil. It was Israel responding to RPGs, gunflire and Katyushas sent by Hizbala over the border into Israel during these past years that instigated every single border event, including the last one.

Hizballa at the most defended these people from Israel’s justified responses to Hizballa’s agressions. At the least, Hizballa is the primary catalyst that is again causing the destruction of Lebanon.

The minds of Lebanese……………

Mustapha, I wonder what it is with all these Israeli anonymous comments. The minds of Israelis………

Don’t expect anyone to read the post. They’re too afraid to learn anything. They’re too caught up in the smell of (Lebanese) blood.

“For six years, Israeli troops had not stepped onto Lebanese soil.”

Simply read the UNFIL annual reports from 2001 - 2005 and you’ll see how many times Israel has “stepped onto Lebanese soil” whether by land, sea or air. I’m warning you, you will be shocked. SPOILER: Israel had “stepped onto Lebanese soil” ten times more. UNFIL was recording on average 3 incursions by Israel per day compared to an average of one incursion per month by Hezbollah.

correction: at least 10 times more

“Only Hezbollah, she said, can defend them against Israel.”

So Lebanese prefer extremist islamic gorillas to protect them, not Lebanon army, right?
Then I think they clearly deserve what happens to them these days.
Next time invest into your army instead of islamic militatns.

It seems that in her opinion, Israel would have annexed Lebanon if not for Hezbollah.

I thought it was interesting to hear the Lebanese foreign minister updating the news media on the health status of the two captured Israeli soldiers.

This, coupled with the comments of the former Lebanese ambassador to the US prove to me that the Lebanese government is complicit in the Hizb agression and deserve what they are getting.

And another thing. Mosques and schools should be added to the target lists. It is being proved time and time again that the cowardly Hizb pigs are hiding munitions and themselves in said buildings.

At July 23, 2006 11:44 AM, Jad Aoun said…

Simply read the UNFIL annual reports from 2001 - 2005 and you’ll see how many times Israel has “stepped onto Lebanese soil” whether by land, sea or air.

Yes, but why? What happened beforehand in these incidents? If Israel left Lebanon, what made it step over the border time and time again? Your great coffee? To steal your cedar trees?

I’m warning you, you will be shocked. SPOILER: Israel had “stepped onto Lebanese soil” ten times more. UNFIL was recording on average 3 incursions by Israel per day compared to an average of one incursion per month by Hezbollah.

Shocked! Absolutely shocked!

Which came first? The Hizballah incursions or the IDF’s?

Fact is that if Lebanon transgresses Israel’s border, it was never to pick up empty soda bottles and claim the deposits.

If there were no Hizbala, there never would have been a need for Israel to step over the board in response to HA’s attacks.

Try comprehending the difference between “cause” and “effect.” Some day, you might catch on.

the perpetual refugee said…

Mustapha, I wonder what it is with all these Israeli anonymous comments. The minds of Israelis………

Yes, they use them. Try it some time.

Don’t expect anyone to read the post. They’re too afraid to learn anything. They’re too caught up in the smell of (Lebanese) blood.

Everywhere you post, you have nothing much better to do than to conjure up visions of blood-thirsty Jews. It’s obvious that the one who doesn’t read posts here is you.

Maybe that’s why you are a perpetual refugee. You never learn from your country’s past mistakes.

previous anonymous,
you ignorant silly stupid stupid stupid little boy!

You say to the perpetual refugee that “Everywhere you post, you have nothing much better to do than to conjure up visions of blood-thirsty Jews”

Since you pretend to “use your mind” go to any search engine and find out how your atrocities have transformed him form the most anti hizbollah, pro peace, israel friendly person you can think of to whatever you accuse him off.

Go ask his israeli friends (i am sure you’ll find their blogs) and israeli collegues about the kind of man he is or was before your war, then realise what your war has done to your image in the eyes of the lebanese people.

Then you can come back here with more ignorant comments.
Or do you expect your bombs to spread love towards you?

TAC

At July 23, 2006 1:17 PM, Anonymous said…

Since you pretend to “use your mind” go to any search engine and find out how your atrocities have transformed him form the most anti hizbollah, pro peace, israel friendly person you can think of to whatever you accuse him off.

That’s his perogative. In all honesty, I can’t blame him under the circumstances but that doesn’t make his comments about Israeli attitudes correct.

Go ask his israeli friends (i am sure you’ll find their blogs) and israeli collegues about the kind of man he is or was before your war, then realise what your war has done to your image in the eyes of the lebanese people.

That’s just too bad. I am past the point of caring about Lebanese popularity polls.

Israel did not go to war to be popular. Israel to war to defend itself. And it will continue to do so until the problem, which you Lebanese opinionaters closed your eyes to for 6 years, is resolved.

Then you can come back here with more ignorant comments.

You have yet to show me what ignorance I’ve posted here. On the contrary, most of your read like a book for the words you post.

Or do you expect your bombs to spread love towards you?

No I don’t. War has quite an opposite message.

Just a view from America:
If Hezbollah was not baiting Israel from the border, would the Israelis have had any reason to step over the border into Lebanon? It would not have been ok with us.
Hezzbollah does not want peace. It wants the destruction of Israel. They are not going to allow you to live in peace with Israel. I’m not sure what the Lebanese want?
I was a big fan of the cedar revolution. You were able to get Syrian troops out of your country but you failed to get their influence, and that of Iran’s, out of your politics. How can you allow one group in Lebanon to act, not in the best interests of Lebanon, but in the best interests of Syria and Iran without even any political
or even criminal repercussions?
If a group in Texas decided to attack Mexico, I can assure you, they would need to worry first about the US authorities, not about Mexico’s. They would be our citizens and we would not allow them to get away with it.
If the soldiers were not taken and the rockets not fired, I don’t think you would be in this position. Do you want to live at peace with Israel? I think that’s the big question. In a democratic society, the policy of the country should reflect the will of the majority. What is it that the Lebanese want?
TaSS New York, USA

I don’t know if you hear anything about public opinion in Europe, but in general people here are supportive of lebanon and the Lebanese people. What the Israeli’s are doing is f#cking horrific, but I am embaressed to say we are not strong enough to influence either Israel or it’s larger ally the United States of America (which is supplying Israel with the bombs it uses to kill Lebanese civilians)to stop this madness immediately. Take care and for what it’s worth most of us here ware behind the people of Lebanon!

Europe has a long history of lending its support to those dedicated to the systematic destruction of the Jewish people.

Anyway i hear that israel announced that NATO led forces are acceptable. I understand that a hezbollah minister said that its ok for the lebanese government to negotiate over captured soldiers. I hope we are beginning to see the end of it.

“([The U.S.] is supplying Israel with the bombs it uses to kill Lebanese civilians)”

Actually, Israel has its own, native munnitions manufacturing capability.  We do sell them most of their planes, although I believe they may still use French planes too.
Don’t let a little reality interfer with your propaganda though.

“Europe has a long history of lending its support to those dedicated to the systematic destruction of the Jewish people.”

Let me translate this phrase for other people who read this. The motherf#cker who wrote this actually meant to say this: Europeans are not allowed to critize Israel because Europeans are antisemites. That’s a method of making people try to stop critizing Israel which is no longer working. I have been on many meetings were the Israeli occupation of the Westbank and Gazastrip (before the IDF departed) were critized and sometimes Jews would walk in and started yelling: “Auschwitz, Auschwitz, in an attempt to disrupt the meeting. Stop using the past for your political benefit. We live now and why on earth should I not critize the killing of 350 innocent civilians?

“Ten Lebanese villages that rockets were launched from have been order to leave their homes immediately”

I am puzzled as to why the Israelis do not evacuate a town that has hosted launches, willingly or not, then level it. The refugees become Lebanon and Hizbollah’s problem and the town is no longer s site that has to be revisited. Do this as far north as the Israelis feel necessary.

Remove the water in which the terrorists swim. Depopulate a satifactory buffer zone. I really do not care about the ensuing humanitatrian problems. Lebanon should have thought about this before hand.

If, in the future, longer range rockets are allowed in, such as to make the buffer ineffective, Lebanon and the Hizbollah know what the reaction will be (and more importantly the locals will know)- a bigger depopulated zone.

Before I get all the bleeding heart and hand wringers coming back on this, know my first choice is UN 1559. But relying on the UN for anything is like asking for reason from Hizbollah.

Lee, you are supporting the IDF (Israeli Defense Force) with billions and billions of dollars every year. Yes, Israel has it’s own defense industry, but they set that up with American help and American money. Most of their airplanes and helicopters are American made and the precision guided bombs which are being dropped on Lebanese civilians are made somewhere in Pennsylvania or California. That is no propaganda Lee, that is the truth.

I was waiting for this:

At July 23, 2006 3:36 PM, Anonymous said…
“Europe has a long history of lending its support to those dedicated to the systematic destruction of the Jewish people.”

Let me translate this phrase for other people who read this. The motherf#cker who wrote this actually meant to say this: Europeans are not allowed to critize Israel because Europeans are antisemites.

No. Europeans can criticize Israel all they want. But when you repeatedly do so in such a lopsided way when Israel has no choice but to defend itself or roll over and die, it’s quite understandable where Europe’s old habits are coming from.

That’s a method of making people try to stop critizing Israel which is no longer working. I have been on many meetings were the Israeli occupation of the Westbank and Gazastrip (before the IDF departed) were critized and sometimes Jews would walk in and started yelling: “Auschwitz, Auschwitz, in an attempt to disrupt the meeting. Stop using the past for your political benefit. We live now and why on earth should I not critize the killing of 350 innocent civilians?

Here’s one reason out of many why. Or at least criticize those who have truly brought this tragedy upon Lebanon - hint: not Israel.

Lee McDaniel, nice tactics you’re proposing! Where you did you get them from? Mein Kampf? The manual of the SS totenkopf division? You’re out of you’re f#cking mind dude! You’re the kind of guy who loves the smell of napalm in the morning. We don’t need people like that!

Anonymous wrote on July 23, 2006 at 3:45 PM that “Europeans can critize Israel all they want…” and “it’s quite understandable where Europe’s old habits are coming from.” You’re still trying to link Europe’s past with the critical attitude the EU often has towards disproportional Israeli actions. That is nonsense.

Most countries in the world, except for the US share Europe’s view on this. The fact the US is supportive of Israel rather than critical has to do with the fact the Jewish lobby in the US is huge and very influential (two Harvard professors recently wrote an article about this and were immediately denounced as antisemites, but who would have excepted anything else?)American Jews effectively influenced American foreign policy on multiple occasions and now have alligned themselves with the neo-cons. Bush wouldn’t even stop Israel if they did start to wipe out all of Lebanon. He would still call Olmert a man of peace.

Anon: 3:41 Tell me something I do not Know..

Anon 3:49 and your enduring solution is?

“Meanwhile Hezbollah and its allies both in the region and in the West are and will be waging the mother of all propaganda wars. The task assigned to the propagandists is to stop military operations so that Hezbollah survives, international interventions fail and the Lebanese Government collapses. A war of images, photos, mudding, internet, and media will explode in all directions. Operatives helping Hezbollah, including many with Christian names, will be waging an indiscriminate propaganda offensive against Lebanese, Arab, Western and obviously Israeli figures to spread confusion and psychological collapse in the international community. Objective: Obstruct the implementation of UNSCR 1559, trash the March 14 movement, criticize the Arab Government, and incite for Jihadi violence.” Walid Phares on counterterrorism.org.

Anonymous said…

Anonymous wrote on July 23, 2006 at 3:45 PM that “Europeans can critize Israel all they want…” and “it’s quite understandable where Europe’s old habits are coming from.” You’re still trying to link Europe’s past with the critical attitude the EU often has towards disproportional Israeli actions. That is nonsense.

Most countries in the world, except for the US share Europe’s view on this. The fact the US is supportive of Israel rather than critical has to do with the fact the Jewish lobby in the US is huge and very influential (two Harvard professors recently wrote an article about this and were immediately denounced as antisemites, but who would have excepted anything else?)American Jews effectively influenced American foreign policy on multiple occasions and now have alligned themselves with the neo-cons. Bush wouldn’t even stop Israel if they did start to wipe out all of Lebanon. He would still call Olmert a man of peace.

———————-

I dont know why people should go endlessly thru the same shitty arguements . And this is clearly not the core of the problem. Lebanon has changed. Hezbollah has changed. They should adapt to the new realities.

Nasrallah is no longer a leader of the guerilla movement and the tactics that served him so well in the past don’t work any longer. Israel is absolutely relaxed about captured soldiers. They know the whole world holds now nasrallah responsible for their safety. He can t just shot them or sell them to iran. The times have changed.

And defending a country has little to do with staging ambushes once a week on some soldiers. Guerilla tactics work for people who has nothing to lose. They lose any sense when a country is sufficiently developed.

Nasrallah simply should make up his mind about what he wants more - fight israel or develop his shiite comminity. He can t with one hand build hospitals and schools in the south and with another destroy it all in one day by provoking israel.

If he wants to fight then hezbollah should pullout out of the government, provoke sectarian confrontations and plunged the country into chaos. Then hezbollah would be back as an effective guerilla force of people who have nothing to lose.

If its the second that he wants then he should give up on armed struggle. His options are very clear. He should simply make up his mind about what are his priorities.

And lebanon can no longer be leaving its relationships with israel to chance. It was long overdue to strike some accord between the two countries. At least some kind of ceacefire agreement like that of 1949, some normalization. They should bring order to the whole thing.

The relationships between lebanon and israel were one big black hole. It was only a matter of time for the whole thing to explode.

Nasrallah threatens Detroit USA

http://www.youtube.com/v/M-nipIdnU6k

The previous comment (at 3:36 PM) brings up a peripheral issue: namely, European criticism of Israeli policy. I would disagree with that poster’s assessment. Many Jews today are rightfully suspicious of European motives; 2,000 years of aggressive persecution does not disappear in 60 years. There is a reason Israelis cling so strongly to the promise of their homeland–because in the years when they had no Israel, in the time when Zion was only a hope, they were the constant scapegoats and whipping boys of the world. It was all they had left. There is a reason why the Jews wanted Israel so much, and are sometimes willing to go to extremes defending that idea. Europe, that continent of pain, simply put, was not–and, to some, is not, will never be–safe for the Jewish people. Not only that, but this entire mess in the Middle East is the direct result of Europe’s cynical divide and conquer strategy. Does this mean that no European could ever validly criticize Israel? No, of course not. But it does mean that they must understand also why many will be suspicious of their motives. Even the 6:33’s flippant dismissal of how real anti-semetism is in the Jewish experience would strike some as yet another form of the old hatred.

On to the main issue. The realities on the ground are, as pointed out in the NYT article, much more complex than any us vs. them mentality. The fact that Hezbollah provides social services goes a long way to ingratiating them with the population, a tactic similarly used by Hamas. I am not always a supporter of Israeli policy; I understand that there is vivid resentment against Israelis amongst some Lebanese as a result of the 1982-2000 occupation. But it seems to me in this case that Hezbollah was desperately seeking to justify its own existence.

Israelis, sick of fighting with their neighbors, had begun to unilaterally withdraw. Most painful, perhaps, was the destruction of Jewish settlements in the West Bank. But the Israelis left. Seeing this, the Palestinians had a choice; they could either work to build their community in prosperity and peace or they could choose to continue fighting Israel. They chose the latter course. Israel’s response in Gaza was the response of a people whose hope for peace had been betrayed. And Hezbollah, seeing all this, decided to fuel the fire even further. In an absolutely unjustified incursion, they copied directly from the Hamas extremists and kidnapped the Israeli soldiers. Having seen what happened in Gaza, they knew exactly what would follow.

What was Israel to do? Should the Israelis have simply let it go? Should they have rewarded terrorism through a prisoner exchange? Many have pointed out that they have done so in the past; clearly, however, that has only served to encourage further terrorism. Hezbollah knew exactly what would follow. Not only did they provoke this latest conflict, but they also decided to use the Lebanese people as their shields. The Lebanese government is complicit in that it refuses to condemn the criminals who dragged their country into war. Those who assist Hezbollah as “civilians” also have a hand in the betrayal of their fellow citizens, by blurring the distinctions between combatants and non-combatants. The Israelis, in this instance, may not be your real enemies. Hezbollah militants, after all, are in hiding now, safe from the consequences of their reckless gambit, safe now that they have stabbed the Lebanese people in the back.

Hi All,

I would just like to bring into the picture the suffering of the Israeli population, caused by more than 100 rockets fired daily on cities and villages.
Almost one million civilans are threatened every hour by this violence, many of them had to leave their homes. Children do not visit kindergartens, parents do not go to work etc. And this is before mentioning more than 30 people dead. All of this without any provocation from the Israeli side.

“I thought it was interesting to hear the Lebanese foreign minister updating the news media on the health status of the two captured Israeli soldiers.”

Good catch! Yeah, it’s over for us now. There is no longer a distinction between Lebanon the state and Hizbullah the state. We are gluttons for our own punishment. Now every area north and south is fair game. Great strategy, all for the sake of avoiding civil strife, like there couldn’t be other solutions.

And a question:
Where did Hezbollah stand in the cedar revolution? Did they stand with Lebanon or with Syria?
If they stood with Lebanon, perhaps I’m wrong about them because right now I view Hezbollah as more taking their orders from Syria and Iran, then being concerned with the well bring of Lebanon.
And also of course, a democratic movement, would be opposite of Hezbollah’s stated goals of an Islamic State.
If they stood with Syria and you were able to force change anyway, why cannot you not force change now? Goes back to my question on exactly what does the Lebanese people want, to live in peace with Israel or to continue attacks on Israel? Perhaps the reason Lebanon does not try to reign in Hezbollah is because it is actually a reflection of the underneath sentiment in Lebanese society?
TaSS New York, USA

Hizbullah was diametrically opposed to the Cedar Revolution. But now we are expected to wipe Nasrallah’s ass.

Where did Hezbollah stand in the cedar revolution? Did they stand with Lebanon or with Syria?

They stood with Syria. They marched by the thousands in the streets against the Cedar Revolution, and the Lebanese marched in the streets in the hundreds of thousands against them. It took incredible courage and the Lebanese can be justly proud of it. It also gives me hope that, at the end of the day, Lebanon will rid themselves of the last remnants of Syrian occupation and finally be truly free.

By the way, why is Syria so evil? I know everybody says Syria is evil and all, but why? In all honesty I ask this question. Please tell me, why is Syria part of the “axis of evil”?

Anonymous (1:31 PM):

> You have yet to show me what ignorance I’ve posted here.
I did but you failed to see it so I’ll explain at the risk of boring others… :-)

You said about perpetual refugee : “Everywhere you post, you have nothing much better to do than to conjure up visions of blood-thirsty Jews”

Then after checking some facts you say ” That’s his perogative. In all honesty, I can’t blame him under the circumstances but that doesn’t make his comments about Israeli attitudes correct. “

Your ignorance is to assume in your first post that his only posts are the ones you happened to read. I pointed to your ignorance by helping you find posts in which he has good things to say about Israelis (Jews or Arabs) to let you see your ignorance. Apparently you found the posts, but failed to aknowledge your ignorance about them.

You are correct, that doesn’t make his latter comments correct or his ealiers ones correct. It just shows you were ignorant when you made your original comment about how “he has nothing better to do”.

> And it will continue to do so until the problem, which you Lebanese opinionaters closed your eyes to for 6 years, is resolved.

Here lies the second point on which you show your total ignorance of the subject at hand.
As you may not know, or know but pretend not to, resolution 1559 was crafted less that 2 years ago, the syrians who controled lebanon left about a year ago , so we have been “closing our eyes” for about a year.
I hope I am explaining enough this time you can see your ignorance.

Also by saying “closing our eyes” you are implying not doing anything which also shows your ignorance.
Had you said not working fast enough or hard enough you might have had some point you could defend …

Also another point which is not directly related to your ignorance …

> Israel did not go to war to be popular.
> Israel to war to defend itself.

Of course it did. Until now you have already “defended” about 42 of your citizens half of which are civilians. Keep up the good work.
Just a small note, since 2000 Hezbollah had managed to kill one civilian and a dozen military, until you guys decided to defend yourslves, 42 deaths ensue, missiles fall on Haifa for the first time.
But that’s not a big issue, if you don’t care about how many of your civilians you are killing why should anyone.

And finnally , in your first comment about cause and effect
You do realize that hizbollah was created as a result of the invasion of Lebanon by the IDF in order to combat it don’t you? It’s not like they existed before that! Cause IDH ivades lebanon effect Hezbollah is created how hard is that ?

Then you casually mention:
> Which came first? The Hizballah incursions or the IDF’s?
…
> Try comprehending the difference between “cause” and “effect.”

I hope you realize that such reasoning, which merely confuses “cause and effect” with “which came first” is a well known logical fallacy called “Post hoc ergo propter hoc”.
There, we are back at showing your ignorance again ….

I have no issues with you about what is happening (bombs and war and stuff) it all ok as far as I am concerned, except for your ignorance on such key matters ;-)

TAC.

“…and the precision guided bombs which are being dropped on Lebanese civilians are made somewhere in Pennsylvania or California. That is no propaganda Lee, that is the truth.“

Assuming that to be true (and I’m not sure it is), just for the sake of argument…
Your other choice would be what?
We don’t give them the guided bomb technology and they resort to broad coverage or carpet bombing instead?
That doesn’t seem to me to be an improvement for the Lebanese.
You’re not Lebanese though are you?

I guess because Syria is a state sponsor of terrorism but was it included in the axis of evil comment? I thought that was Iraq (during Saddam) Iran and North Korea?
In any case, the US retains diplomatic ties with Syria and Assad seems much more reasonable and able to act diplomatically then Ahmadinejad. We’ve had limited cooperation at times and at times, we’ve had strained relations but Syria does not seem a threat to the world or to the US, although I think they have a mutual defense pact with Iran and I do think Iran is a threat to world security.
Ok, let the comments fly, I’m expecting them.
TaSS New York, USA

Since you pretend to “use your mind” go to any search engine and find out how your atrocities have transformed him form the most anti hizbollah, pro peace, israel friendly person you can think of to whatever you accuse him off.

That’s right. “Refugee” is now embarassed that he didn’t hate Israelis like everyone else, and is trying his hardest to make up for time. He’s obviously afraid that other Lebanese will think he’s a traitor, so he makes the biggest show of blaming and spitting that he can.

He’s pathetically immature.

PEOPLE –

fill in an identity. It makes it much easier to follow arguments. So everyone isn’t “anonymous”.

I started out feeling Israel was justified in starting this war, though probably somewhat too indiscriminate in it’s target list (recognizing that some of what was hit probably wasn’t targeted or was misidentified).

I still feel that a war of this type bringing the costs it does to civilians (though tragic given the divisions in Lebanese society and the fact that most of the country wanted Hez. to disarm and certainly not to raid Israel) could be justified under the right circumstances – I just don’t think those circumstances obtained.

I was initially under the impression that Hez. had not only grabbed the two soldiers and killed 5 in it’s cross border raid, but also recently resumed substantial and increasing rocket barrages with an alarmingly increased arsenal to draw upon. I have recently learned that Hez. had actually been decreasing its limited and sporadic rocket attacks over the last several months, with the exception of a handful of rockets on the day of the raid, probably as a diversion.

That means they weren’t progressively stepping up rocket attacks to see how far they could go, which would have to be stopped sometime. Yeah, that always COULD happen, but it hadn’t. And the USSR could have launched a pre-emptive nuclear missile attack, but they didn’t.

It was just the grab of two soldiers to get back their three in a prisoner exchange, as they’ve been saying for years they’d do if Israel wouldn’t give them back otherwise.

Which makes the Israeli response MASSIVELY disproportionate. As much about IDF face as deterrence.

Just plain wrong.

And most Americans would think so too I am quite sure, if they heard the story this way – as opposed to it being a response to massive missile attacks reigning down on Israeli cities. (That was THEIR response to the infrastructure strikes.)

Jad aoun –

Just reading your first couple of posts above about UNIFL reports on greater Israeli incursions.

That just amplifies what I was saying.

The larger point is that minor border skirmishes don’t remotely justify real wars, or even mini-wars which cause massive damage to civilian infrastructure and substantial civilian casualties.

What WOULD justify this (as hard and unfair in many ways as that is to most Lebanese civilians) within certain limits is if Hez. had also been more and more stepping up rocket attacks on Israeli cities – and it genuinely looked like it was going to just get worse and worse until it was stopped by force. THAT is what has been so misleadingly reported in America. What Hez. has done after the bombing raids on infrastructure started has been conflated with what Hez. did first to start the conflict. The distinction hasn’t been drawn, or what it means pointed out, as I’ve done above.

That’s crucial for American support. We aren’t the pacifists the Euros or, nor are we hostile towards or deeply suspicious of Israel (our non-Jewish left and far left often excepted).

But we also don’t believe in making a mountain out of a molehill.

“Perhaps the reason Lebanon does not try to reign in Hezbollah is because it is actually a reflection of the underneath sentiment in Lebanese society?
TaSS New York, USA”

Sure, why not try something you’ll surely fail at doing except PERHAPS under the most advantageous circumstances (which you’re trying to pull off), just because it risks plunging the country back into ruinous civil war?

Far, far more ruinous than even all the current pulverizing.

What the PM was trying to pull of is this. The plan involved getting back the tiny and abandoned Shaba Farms from Israel, even though they’re Syrian. That can be finessed, and it ain’t even arguably strategic land for Israel. (Syria has been saying it is really Lebanese territory to make trouble for Israel and support Hez., without doing anything formal. So make good Syria and hand over your rights.) That and getting back three Lebanese (Hez.) prisoners would remove all the even arguable Hez. causus belli against Israel, at least that were at all nationally based. Since they have CLAIMED to be Lebanese first, their excuse for remaining and independent (and effective) guerilla fighting force that is independently armed goes way down.

Hey “Crazy Elias,” once the peacekeeping troops move in and they are shot at by Hezbollah, who do you then fight with? Also, If the Syrians move in, do you also fight alongside the Syrians or do we “flip-flop” (like we did this past week), and repel the Syrian invasion and fight alongside Israel? Crazy Elias backing the wrong horse by saying we will fight alongside Hez. At any rate, if our army enters the conflict, it’s important that they make a huge distinction that they are fighting for Lebanon and not fighting with, or for Hezbollah.

Syria is sponsoring terrorism? Perhaps, but who really knows? Have you seen evidence Syria sponsors terrorism? I haven’t. I do know Israel is still occupying a large part of Syria and annexed it in 1981. Israeli settlers have moved in to the Golan Hights and will never leave. Now if I was a Syrian that would piss me of, wouldn’t it piss any of you of? Is it really that hard to look at it from different angles? To look where people come from and why they do things? And what about all those Palestinians who live in refugeecamps because their parents were chased from them homes by Israel. Some Palestinians still have the key to their house, but theír house no longer exists (or perhaps Israeli’s live in it now). Wouldn’t it anger any of you if someone would chase you away from your house, the place were your family and ancestors lived for hundreds and hundreds of years? Make no illusions; it would anger you. The question is what can we do about it now?

I think about that question so many times, but find it hard to answer it. I think the answer lies in sharing the land, respecting each other and in times of conflict and provocation which will be inevitable leaders who will stay cool and do the right thing. It’s not very difficult to create hatred, the real challenge is to stop the hatred. I guess Israel’s government didn’t really get that message yet.

What happen to that great Illustration.

It is also a good read for the Lebanese who can’t understand why a 23 year old woman with a masters degree supports Hezbollah.

I read the article and the only answer I found to that question, after all of the nonesense was weeded out, is that she’s a Shiite. Did you see more than I did?

How about some media attention to all the moderates (60%-70%) of this country! Otherwise, the world will think we are all just a bunch of Jihadist terrorist! I’m so fucking tired of hearing of their struggle and resistance. It’s a tired act! If it wasn’t for the ghostly resistance that Nasrallah kept alive, the Shiites would have peace, love and harmony by now.

If it wasn’t for the ghostly resistance that Nasrallah kept alive, the Shiites would have peace, love and harmony by now.

The idea of Muslims tolerating peace love and harmony within 100 miles of a Jew makes me smile. They’d hate that.

Anon @10:42″Wouldn’t it anger any of you if someone would chase you away from your house, the place were your family and ancestors lived for hundreds and hundreds of years? Make no illusions; it would anger you.”

Iraqi, MArrocan, Lebanese, Syrian etc. Jews now living in Israel can answer this question, and the answer will be as follows: this is history for them now. Unpleasant, tragic etc., but history. They move on. And you?

Hi Josh! You scholar you :-) HurryupHurryup

I esp. liked this

———————–
Anonymous said…

Syria is sponsoring terrorism? Perhaps, but who really knows?
July 23, 2006 10:42 PM
—————————

Nightstudies

> I read the article and the only answer I found to that question,
> after all of the nonesense was weeded out, is that she’s a Shiite.
> Did you see more than I did?

hahahaha good one! I love it how, in order to make sure you don’t find an answer to the question , you had an urge to “weed out nonesense” like for example “Thanks to Hezbollah’s financial help, she said, she went to college and earned a master’s degree”.

Of course any reason you don’t agree with you can weed out and pretend it never existed.
Dude if don’t want want to understand her reasons or don’t care that’s your problem (and you right) just don’t pretend they don’t exist and you could not find them.

Also as a response to :
“the Shiites would have peace, love and harmony by now.”
you say :
> The idea of Muslims tolerating peace love and harmony within 100 miles of a Jew makes me smile.
> They’d hate that.

Are you sure?
I don’t claim to be a definite reference on the history of this issue but a quick check on a couple of sites such as wikipedia indicate that prior to the israeli invasion of lebanon in 1982 the Shiites in Lebanon were fighting the PLO and not israel.
They did not care to fight the Israelis before Israel invaded south Lebanon.
No ? Do you have better references indicating otherwise or are you just speculating and just to spread more hate?

To Anon. @ 11:56

No they dont preffer extremist islamist guerillas to protect them. On the other hand Israel PREFFERS that the Lebanese army protects them so they have a proper excuse to turn this into a country vs country war…. actually, the kidnapping of the 2 soldiers and the whole “war on terrorism” was just an excuse for what is happening right now in Lebanon.

Lebanon never had the intention of attacking israel, or going to war with israel, HENCE they have not invested in the army, rather in the economy, on the other hand, israel not only was investing in its army but also sucking american dicks for more and more guns and ammo….why? well if you cant answer this question for yourself, then I shouldny be bothering with your morronic analysis of the situation in the first place.

Concerning adding mosques and schools to the target list; the israeli swines are already doing that, and not only mosques and schools, but whole residential blocks, Fuel stations, supermarkets, Hospitals, Ambulances, Reporters and many more innocent and civilian targets.

To Anon. @ 1:17PM

Ahhh…..the “but he hit me first” excuse never gets old, and as always, people confuse the Lebanese Government with HO, out of ignorance I’m sure.
No one needs to conjure images of blood-thirsty jews, these faggots have already made a good image of themselves here.
As it is obvious from your follow-up post, you turned your back with your tail between your legs and switched to passive defensiveness….whats wrong? starting to doubt your own words?

To Anon at 12:32PM

Clearely you fail to realise the nature of the relationships between Hizbolla and the Lebanese government, let me try and explain a couple of things to you, primo, Hizbolla does not hold “talks” nor “discussions” and at the very least “negotiations” with The Lebanese Government, they act upon the orders of Hassan Nassralla, communications in this setting happen only in one direction; HA > LB Gov. This does not imply that The Lebanese Governemtn is implicit in the actions of Hizbolla.

To anon. @ 1:32PM

People over here have long stoped giving a damn about the views of the Americans, and their double standards.

Anon at 3:31PM
And this dosent show in no way that the israelis are blood-thirsty swine…

To european @ 4:35 PM
Now compare your measly 30 dead with our 370 dead and 1500+ injured, 50 000 Homeless and about 2 million that are preparing to face hunger and alienation
If you take those 100 rockets fired over Israel and bundle them together they still wont be able to match 1 of the bombs you people are throwing at us. But I guess all these poeple deserve everything that hits them, after all, they started it, right?

Nightstudies, the Idea if Israel tolerating a prosperous, conflict free Lebanon is laughable.

Never trust wikipedia on any subject that Islamist radicalism touches.

The wiki is always beaten into submission.

Nightstudies said…

Never trust wikipedia on any subject that Islamist radicalism touches.

The wiki is always beaten into submission.

—————-

I bet the only thing in the world that is not beaten into submission is hamas and sheikh hassan nasrallah. Such a shame that he ran out of money to buy more rockets

He ran out of money? LOL, where did you get that bit of info from?

Galin said…

He ran out of money? LOL, where did you get that bit of info from?

—————

Just by the number of rockets he shot until now. He was talking so much we were thinking he equiped himself with 100 000 katyushas

Unless you are going to claim that what we saw until now is an adequate amount of weapons for defending the country against the IDF air force

The motherf#cker who wrote this actually meant to say this: Europeans are not allowed to critize Israel because Europeans are antisemites.

Europeans are gutless antisemitic dhimmis, waiting for their Arab masters… We aren’t… We’ll fight and yes, war isn’t nice… You should have thought about it before havin Hezballah in your territory and government…

I guess we will just have to wait and see what HA pulls out of it’s sleeve.

So far the IDF’s performance against HA is at the best; pathetic. Keeping in mind, that the Hizb. is severely outnumbered and outgunned to begin with.

You will now tell me that so far hundreds of HA fighters have met their end, well no one knows for sure just how many of them have lost their lives in this conflict, the figure might be in the thousands, or on the other hand just a few dozens, the point is HA is willing to suffer thousands of casualties, while you Zionists go into nation wide mourning everytime one of the IDF pigs is sent back to his parents in a bodybag.

Congrats on capturing the town next to the borders “strategicaly” 911 meters above sea level, now you wanna hear why the reports included the word “strategicaly”; its to justify the IDF’s losses infront of the Israeli Public.

Count your losses pigs and dont bother with those of the “terrorists”, they dont care about numbers.

Galin said…

while you Zionists go into nation wide mourning everytime one of the IDF pigs is sent back to his parents in a bodybag…

Count your losses pigs and dont bother with those of the “terrorists”, they dont care about numbers.

——————-

We noticed this. You think they just know how much zionists are more worthy than their own people ?

The thing ,galin, is actually simple. Certainly nasrallah does nt count people on his side. He is certainly interested only in counting dead zionists. But its not sure that the zionists are the only one in this region to go into nation wide morning seeing one of theirs dead. And this may happen to be nasrallah’s biggest miscalculation.

Count your losses pigs and dont bother with those of the “terrorists”, they dont care about numbers.

Nor about democracy, freedom, peace, life, prosparity or truth.

Brainless, primitive fascists.

And just how does Israel’s actions support Democracy? By trying to instigate Civile strife within lebanon, hell why not! Its better that we kill each and do the work for you, isnt it?

Freedom? The region has long forgotten the meaning of the word…

Peace? where do you come from fella?

Life? Look at the figures

Prosperity? Hell yeah, bombing a country back to the stone ages is israel’s understanding of prosperity, so it seems… Or is it that you are only considering Israel’s prosperity, whithout giving a damn about the region as a whole? If so, then you are plain stupid to believe that israel could prosper while making enemies of its entire neighbourhood.

Dont get me wrong, I am all for peace between Israel and Lebanon, and a Country free from foreign influences, but what Israel is doing right now can not be easily forgiven nor justified.

I advise you to look up fascist in a dictionary and then provide ample arguments implying the arab party of beeing fascistic and Israel’s agenda free from fascisim, otherwise keep your ignorant comments to yourself.

Hezbollah is dependent of the Lebanon or the Lebanon depends on the Hezbollah?

Dont get me wrong, I am all for peace between Israel and Lebanon, and a Country free from foreign influences

———–

galin. are you lebanese ? can u explain what u mean by foreign influences ? i understand that u mean hezbollah but can u explain a bit more how u see the whole thing ?

None of you get it! Israel’s government is the evil twin of the U.S. Government - not it’s people! Yes there are many ignorant, childish people in the world but this is fading. At this moment there are Israeli Army & Airforce who are refusing to commit this genocide. The problem is the governments, the governments run by corporations who do not give a rat’s behind about the people. Israel creates it’s own misery…it’s been creating it for 38 years and back. You reap what you sow. People everywhere must speak out against the corrupt and greedy governments. The radicals & terrorists are not going to win, ever, until they “win the crowd” educate the crowd, instead of blowing them up. The current situation is insane. Connie Rice is worthless. We’ve called our government representatives to let them know we’re outraged at this insanity and our governments involvement in it. People must unite against violence and opression.

Since when is 400 people dead “genocide”?

I mean, I think Israel is being way too careless about targetting civilians. I am ambivalent at best about the existence of Israel. But “genocide”?

How many people died in the Lebanese Civil War? How many people did Syria kill (or disappear) during its occupation? How many people has Hezbollah killed–Arabs, I mean–since the Civil War ended?

I say:

Start the revolution my brothers!

CWTR™

Be honest people. When the euphoria of the cedar demonstrations was counter-acted by a heavily armed pro-syrian demonstration how many of you thought that it would end peacefully? C’mon. Be honest. How many of you were so naive and deluded to think that the problem would just go away? Lebanon was a war waiting to happen. The only question was in which direction the missiles would be shot. So now let’s be honest again. Would you rather them be shot at northern Israel or northern Lebanon?

frickin mid-easterners. so caught up in hatred, racism, bigotry, and fanatcism that you can’t even see the nose on your face.

> Nightstudies said…

> Never trust wikipedia on any subject that Islamist radicalism touches.

Even in my original post I did not claim to reply on one source.
All the references I found back up the same theory mentionned in wikipedia.
Even in the history for the wikipedia artcle no one tried to pretend otherwise (which is not a sign of controvercy on the topic)

So you are still in the same position , instead of addressing any of the point of the post, you claim other wource are unreliable, you fail to provide any better source, the only refrence you ever provided is is that you have the word studies in your nickname ;-)

“People over here have long stoped giving a damn about the views of the Americans, and their double standards.”

That’s fine. Which is why I really put the fact that I was American right in front.
I was really just trying to understand your perception, rather then give you mine. Since I don’t fully understand the situation (and to be honest, the mindset) the only thing I would say to you is, “See what you want to be and go towards it.”
TaSS New York, USA

I just finished reading the al jazeera interview with Nasrallah. You guys are F**ked. This Nasrallah fellow has no intention of ever disarming or relinquishing control of his militia. AJ asked him whether or not he told your government in advance that he was going to kidnap the soldiers or that he would fire missiles. He effectively said that it was a preposterous idea because he did not even tell Syria or Iran. I don’t think he realized the gravity of what he said. His loyalty is to Syria/Iran first and Lebanon second. You guys are screwed.

Your destiny is to host a foreign army that fights proxy wars for other nations. You will become the next Gaza. I will pray for you but I do not think it will do any good. I think your hatred of Israel is so great that you would sleep with the devil.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/PrintArticle.php?articleId=2790

Just a thought, but being named “moron99″ sort of hampers the ability for statements to be taken seriously. Not saying I agree or disagree, just saying…

We are all morons. You would not expect your dog to understand mathematics. Nor should you expect humans to understand the whole truth. Individually we are incapable of understanding the entire truth about anything. Why does water frezze? What causes gravity? Did God make man or did man make God? We spend our entire lives approximating the truth and we build complex defense mechanisms to protect our assumptions. But in the end it is only through collective wisdom that we have any chance of finding a truer truth. So yes, I am a moron. I was born that way.

To all Israel supporters, check this out and get informed:

1) what a joke the IDFs are…how can anyone recover from this?
http://israelscrimes.blogspot.com/2006/08/idf-what-joke.html

2) HOW Peaceful the Israeli prime ministers are:
http://www.monabaker.com/quotes.htm

3) When typing “Israel crimes” on google 81,700,000 entries come up.

4) when typing “isreal kills” on google, you get 22,100,000 entries.

5) when typing “blood on Israel’s hands” you get 20,800,000.

Conclusion: Israel calls itself a jewish state. Sorry but no religion calls for those crimes, not the jewish one. Israelis are the dirtiest creatures on this earth. They will get what they deserve.

More information for the ISRAELI supporters:

Here is an interesting site showing you exactly how ISRAEL tortures their prisoners (women and children)

http://www.addameer.org/detention/torture.html

Israeli soldiers are taught to commit those crimes early on. To them, this is acceptable. Their girls write love notes on bombs.

Are Israelis a lower species of aliens from a different planet?

All the signs are pointing to this direction!